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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldorian" data-source="post: 705530" data-attributes="member: 10504">UK Thats fine.  The original idea came about as "save or die twice."  We just elaborated on how to make "die" actually suck for epic characters =)Btw, I am very interested in hacking out a decent CR system with you, one that takes a monster and with only minimal eyeballing required turns it into it's actual CR, such that it exactly mirrors typical PC power, including magic items and elite stats (15 14 13 12 10 8).  I'm thinking that a PC's CR is 3/5 character levels, 2/5 magic items, with the elite stats considered average, or perhaps being a flat +.5 to the CR.Pulling out Ye Goode Olde MM2, and looking at the HD types for the various monsters, and the DMG for npc classes we have what looks like 4 classifications.3/5 PC classes, PrC, and Dragon, Outsider1/2 Monsterous Humaniod, Magical Beast, Warrior, Adept2/5 Aberration, Elemental, Giant, Humaniod, Shapechanger, Aristocrat, Expert1/3 Animal, Beast, Construct, Fey, Ooze, Plant, Undead, CommonerAnother thing, having a stat of "nil" for Con should count as at least a 10.  It has many advantages over 10 tho, namely, Con damage is no problem, and any Death effect is no problem, no life to kill.  You could classify "nil" as a 10, and then add in the immunities it represents as part of the immunities CR bonus.For "nil" any other stat, it should be a flat 0.For intelegence and charisma, since they have reduced effect for encounter effectiveness (cha only effecting Diplomatic encounters, and Int only setting up tactical advantages), perhaps they should have a reduced factor on encounters at low stats.  Might be too much work to do this, and not worth the effort, but hey, it's a thought.Another thought is that monsterous PCs should be allowed to take NPC classes (or raise their racial HD) in order to force thier ECL/HD ratio down, with the stipulation that HD can never exceed ECL on a PC.For example.  Dungar is a PC with ECL 10 and 9 HD.  He could advance using Expert levels for 3 levels, gaining one level of expert at level 11 in exp, 2 levels of expert at level 12 in exp, making him ECL 12 with 12 HD and the exp of a level 12 character.  When he gets to level 13 for exp, he can take a level of some PC character class, making him ECL 13, with 13 HD.  So he traded his racial bonuses for crappy character classes until he got his HD up to his ECL.So (assuming planetouched is +1 ECL), a level 2 fighter planetouched is ECL 3, but a level 3 Aristocrat planetoched is ECL 3 as well.Anyway, more later.</blockquote>

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