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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldorian" data-source="post: 705644" data-attributes="member: 10504">UKback to my Medusa fasicanation...Medusa  6 Monsterous humanoid HD=  +3total difference over average stats 14 = +1.4Natural armor 3 = +.3Poison snake bite ad hoc (extra attack and weak poison)= +1Petrifying gaze (similiar to bodak death gaze from pdf, 1.5, I think it should be higher) = +2Total 7.7 (.7 higher than MM, this one is pretty close to book actually)Medusa as a PC.  Since wealth is 2/5 the character,medusa statsifies equation7.7=3/5Cwhere C is the ECL (assuming has magic items for the ECL, which is 2/5 the ECL)ECL of medusa PC with normal magic item set is 12 5/6.  So a Pc medusa, with level 13 magic items, is level 13.  Seems too high.  But, judging from the CR/ECL ratio in the MM2, 3/5 is about right.Lets look at this using my proposed NPC classes to catch up on HD.Since we must factor in Magic after HD.. lets work in CR from character alone.Medusa 6 HD, 7.7 CRwant CR to be 3/5 HDLets add commoner levels in bunches of 3level 3, 9HD, 8.7CRlevel 6, 12HD, 9.7CRlevel 9, 15HD, 10.7CR  want CR 9level 12, 18HD, 11.7CR want CR 10.8level 15, 21 HD, 12.7CR want CR 12.6Holy crap, in order to get a medusa up to HD=ECL, need to be a level 15 commoner, with 6 HD of medusa.  Perhaps 1/3 is too generous for commoner levels.  1/4 might be in order. 1/3 for commoner means that 9 levels of commoner are the equilvalent of 5 levels of fighter.  Going by HP, BAB, and Saves, the common falls a bit short there. however, going by 1/4, 12 levels of commoner are equal to 5 levels of fighter, where the commoner gets 3 more HP, 1 more BAB, and  better ref and will saves (3 feats less tho tho).  If the feats were toughness and weapon focus tho... hmm.. 1/4 might be about right.Commoner levels in bunches of 4level 4, 10 HD, 8.7CRlevel 8, 14 HD, 9.7 CRlevel 12, 18 HD, 10.7  Want CR 10.8, doneMedusa HD=ECL, need to be a level 12 Commoner, with 6 HD of medusa, at ECL 18.My medusa would have 5d8 +12d4 + 18(bonus con)HP= 8 +4.5*4 +2.5*12 +18= 74 base hp.Bab = 6+6=12, +2 from bonus dex on ranged, so +14 ranged to hit.base saves at  fort +6, ref +9, wil +9, with +1 to will and fort from bonus stats, 2 from bonus dex.total saves fort 7, ref 11, wil 10.with petrification gaze at DC 10 +1/2HD +2(bonus cha) +CHA = 21+ chapoison DC 20 +conthat doesn't look so bad for a level 18 character.  crappy fighter, mean gaze attack.I think, in conclusion, we can agree that the medusa is a hard PC to make.Also, it seems that the most important calculation to make is "how much does character wealth effect CR"  With this calculation, we can determine exact ECL.  2/5 - 1/4 is what it seems wizards says, based on the MM2 and what I've read of the Savage Species.Eldorian Antar</blockquote>

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