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<blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 751076" data-attributes="member: 2358">The problem I have is not with the balor, but with the Vampire template or anything else with loads of bonuses to skills.&nbsp; I contest that the vampire's skills are NOT worth enough to bump it up a WHOLE CR like you claim.&nbsp; Plain and simple.As to your example, you're once again trying to compare things that can't be compared.&nbsp; Or did it not occur to you that being able to have a normal +10 to a skill is FAR better than having a magic item that does the same?&nbsp; Skills can't be dispelled, destroyed, or gotten rid of.&nbsp; Magic items can.&nbsp; Plus cheap does NOT equal weak.&nbsp; The Ring of Sustenance is quite possibly one of the most powerful rings in the game, yet it costs only 2500.Anyway, why am I the only person who seems to understand that Listen, spot, Hide, and Move Silently have NO effect on sneak attacks?&nbsp; You have to catch your opponent flat-footed or flank the opponent to use sneak attack.&nbsp; If you go before the enemy in initiative, then you catch that opponent flat-footed.&nbsp; If not, you can't catch them flat-footed at all, regardless of those skills.&nbsp; Once the character goes in battle, you can't catch them by surprise either, meaning the skills do nothing in the middle of a battle under all normal circumstaces.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Anubis, post: 751076, member: 2358"] The problem I have is not with the balor, but with the Vampire template or anything else with loads of bonuses to skills. I contest that the vampire's skills are NOT worth enough to bump it up a WHOLE CR like you claim. Plain and simple. As to your example, you're once again trying to compare things that can't be compared. Or did it not occur to you that being able to have a normal +10 to a skill is FAR better than having a magic item that does the same? Skills can't be dispelled, destroyed, or gotten rid of. Magic items can. Plus cheap does NOT equal weak. The Ring of Sustenance is quite possibly one of the most powerful rings in the game, yet it costs only 2500. Anyway, why am I the only person who seems to understand that Listen, spot, Hide, and Move Silently have NO effect on sneak attacks? You have to catch your opponent flat-footed or flank the opponent to use sneak attack. If you go before the enemy in initiative, then you catch that opponent flat-footed. If not, you can't catch them flat-footed at all, regardless of those skills. Once the character goes in battle, you can't catch them by surprise either, meaning the skills do nothing in the middle of a battle under all normal circumstaces. [/QUOTE]

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