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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldorian" data-source="post: 752107" data-attributes="member: 10504">Cloak of resistance ain't broke?  Listen here mate.  Saves work on a scale approximatly half that of AC.  IE, spell combat is scaled to half that of weapon combat.  So you're saying that an item that gives a universal bonus to spell defence, the cloak of resistance, the same price as the equivalent protection for weapon combat, ie, magical armor enhancement, is a good idea?If you don't immediately follow that saves should be approximatly half ac.. look at this.  Wizards, Clerics, Druids and Sorcerers get new spell levels every other character level.  The save DC on a spell (think Attack bonus with an average roll of 10) is 10 + spell level + stat.  Now, the bonus to hit weapn a weapon, for a warrior type, is Level + stat.  Level is twice spell level, ergo, the "attack bonus" of a spell is scaled approximatly half that of a physical attack.  This discrepency is even more disgusting when you consider that physical attack bonus is very simple to increase, with enhancement bonuses to weapons.  Also, the spell caster often must use spells lower level than his max spell level, which pushes the DC down some more.  Is there an enhancement bonus for spell attack bonus?  (note to self.  FINISH ALTERNATE ITEM RULES.. new idea, add in alternate types of bonus to saves, other than enhancement, to mimic AC)Now for defence.  We'll assume a monk, which gets the best saves.  The monk's defence against spells is equal to 1/2 level +2 +stat.  A npc fighter's AC (out of DMG, he has the best AC), on the otherhand, is approximatly ("roll" your AC to compare it to saves) level +3~4 + stat(2 stats for monk).  So obviously his physical defence is scaled to be ~ twice the monk's magical defence.So, obviously, since there is a single weapon attack bonus magical bonus, and enough armor bonuses to keep up, and there is not a magical bonus for spell "attack bonus", but there is one for spell defence, the spell defence one should cost significantly more than the armor bonuses (at least twice, if not more, since there is no spell attack bonus item).Now, I'm not saying that cloak of resistance is "broken" in that the mechanic destroys the game.  I am saying that the mechanic favors defenders.  And that the magic item is vastly superior to other defensive items of similiar cost.  After all, a ring of protection, which is one of the 4 main AC magic items, costs twice as much as a cloak of resistance.  Would you rather have a cloak or a ring?  In the games I play in, we fight things that make us save or bad things happen.  I assume, given the number of spell caster classes and the amount of supernatural and spell like abilites on the monsters in DnD, that other players have had similiar experiences.  Since AC costs twice as much to increase as saves, and the saves are easier to get above the enemy spell caster's DCs, then the cloak would be a better buy.  If the world were fair, there would be a way to use magic items to enhance your spell DCs, and 4 ways to enhance your saves, just like with weapons and AC, except that the magic attack and defence times would cost twice as much.Another problem with DnD combat (one that I realised from computer RPGS) is that magic spells scale funky.  They increase in power MUCH faster than physical attacks.  And save or die mechanics are simply annoying, and require resurrections to be in the game to balance it out, which I find a tad annoying.Anywho, I'ma gonna go do something else than rant about dnd balence and how I could make it better.Eldorian Antar</blockquote>

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