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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldorian" data-source="post: 767681" data-attributes="member: 10504">Sure you can playtest the existance of an item such as the cloak of resistance, but how in the world do you playtest the prices, espceially since I advocate a simple doubling in price?  The in game effects boil down to a 5% difference, that would be astronomically hard to test.That's game balance.  The more powerful an ability is, the more it costs to get it, obviously.  Thats why we don't give vorpal weapons to children...  So they don't rise up and kill the parents (ie, low levels killing your big bad monsters)Magical offencive items?  Where?  Oh, you mean ability scores. Guess what, they aren't just for magical offence.  They do many other things, including magical defence (wisdom) skills(Int), and.. err.. what does Cha do again?  oh yah. not much unless you have a nifty class =P.  Plus, I'm reading my DMG here.. at it saysA +2 cloak of charsima costs 4k, which adds 1 to save DCs.A +1 cloak of resistance costs 1k, which adds 1 to saves.A +4 cloak of charisma costs 16k, which adds 2 to save DCs.  A +2 cloak of resistance costs 4k, which adds 2 to saves. A +6 cloak of charisma costs 36k, which adds 3 to save DCs.A +3 cloak of resistance costs 9k, which adds 3 to saves.hmm.. I don't know if I've got the math right (ok, I do) it looks to me like the item that increases save DCs costs 4 times as much as the protection, not twice as you claimed.  And there are 5 levels of protection, while the offence sports only 3.Not all hope is lost...Are we playing the same game?!?!  SR protects against spells.  Spells only.  Saves protect in many more situations, including almost all the situations that SR would help.  The number of spells without saves but with SR could be counted on your fingers, or at least your fingers and toes.  The number of monsters with supernatural or psionic attacks is vastly larger than the number of such spells.  In addition, saves help against mundane attacks, such as poison and falling into pits.  How is SR more potent?  Maybe extremly high levels of SR seems more potent, but get a cleric with good stats and a cloak of resistance and see how much he fears spell casters, or gaze attacks, or psionics, or supernatural charm effects ect ect.  (I would have used monk as my example, but you'd point out they get SR.)How different are they?  They go up in measurable rates, they provide similiar benifits...  I mean, they look to me to be the same stuff, only the feats you get from experience (reward one) and the magic you get from the monies. (reward two).  Since the amount of money and exp for each fight is directly controled by the DM, and they both have suggested values, it looks to me like they are one and the same.  As equating variable variables (what variables aren't variable?) across variable sections (variable sections? we got 2, magic and feats) of a variable system (i'll give you this, you can pick different feats or magic) being impossilbe?  We only have two variables here.. selection of magic items and feats.  If the magic items and the feats are roughly equal in thier own sets, and thier sets respond to a relation that one could easily define (money per feat, for example),  how can we not compare the two?ok... what happened to bold or italics?Eldorian Antar</blockquote>

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