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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 1190477" data-attributes="member: 8461">See, that's the sort of thing that I'd really love to see in the IH. It's great to see something that doesn't feel the need to rearrange what I feel is a pretty good structure already (that is, the modron castes); rather, it just presents a new way of interpreting the differences between them.I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that WotC blurred the lines because the definition of Greater Gods wasn't just that they were the pantheon heads? Otherwise, it seems that adding the Intermediate God level, and then, later, adding in divine rank, could only make the system better.My take on this is that if you don't like the "stretching" of the planar hierarchies, just don't do it. WotC themselves have seriously backed up on this one. Although the decision seemed to be as much due to them not wanting you to have to buy D&Dg or the ELH as anything else, they scaled back the various Demon and Devil Lords to the point where they aren't really gods in any sense. (Of course, then they tried to have their cake and eat it too by saying how they could still have worshippers who have divine spells.)That said, I don't really feel that you need to occupy every rung of the ladder. The system of which planar beings hold what rank of divinity doesn't have to make obvious sense in the idea of being a set hierarchy. Demogorgon can be a lesser god (which is what 2E had him pegged as, despite having added that Intermediate God level), but that doesn't mean that all other Lords must then be demipowers by comparrison. Orcus and Graz'zt would have to have similar power, but even that is flexible. You wouldn't have to make balors Hero-deities (something I feel may be a bad idea...otherwise it sets a precedent that every tough outsider has some godliness...make divinity too ubiquitous and it quickly loses its splendor to players when they face something thats partially divine).See, I don't think these questions even need to be asked. If Demogorgon is a Lesser Power, and Lolth is an Intermediate Power...so what? Lolth's being an Intermediate God is in no way indicative that all other Demon Monarchs must be of that same power level to be considered a Demon Monarch. Some of them are just more powerful than others. It's as simple as that.On the question of why then, if some are so much more powerful than others, why don't those ones rule everything (say, the entire Abyss), that too is a question that seems to answer itself. There are more things than just raw combat power to consider. Politics might be one of them. What good is it to kill someone if that brings a rain of their allies down on your head? What if killing them leaves you so expended on personal might that you know that others, sensing your weakness, would attack you like a wolf pack? What if those other beings are just so insignificant as to be beneath your notice? Even Baphomet lets Pale Night, an ancient Abyssal Lord (Graz'zt's and several others' mother) live in his realm.I just think you're analyzing the situation a bit more than is necessary. IMHO, it is enough to just say, "this is how it is" and let the situation justify itself. We don't need to have a stepping-order of increasingly powerful beings with every level represented for every hierarchy; Demogorgon doesn't need to be an Intermediate Power just because Lolth is, and there don't need to be other kinds of Formians between Formian Queens and the Scion Queen Mother.Now that's an interesting option! I'm glad it's just being billed as an option though, since, as I said before, it seems to make divine beings slightly too prolific. I know in my campaign, I'd want my players to be shocked and amazed to even meet and fight a Hero-Deity. But (assuming I run a planar campaign to some degree) that's somewhat harder to drive home when the upper echelons of most planar races begin to touch divinity.On the subject of Slaad and Modrons, it's a real pity you can't touch upon them in your book since their closed content. On that note, have you just tried asking WotC for permission to use them? It probably won't work, but its worth a shot at least.</blockquote>

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