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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 1191993" data-attributes="member: 326">Hi Alzrius mate! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I had to go out earlier otherwise I would have had the reply done sooner.Glad you approve. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> In a way, yes. Though I don't see all Greater Deities needing a Pantheon beneath them (obviously); I think the nominal head of a Pantheon should be clearly above and beyond the others (except in cases where there is more than one nominal ruler).So I wouldn't have Thor and Odin as both Greater Deities.Indeed, Intermediate God status is a useful tool. Though individual Divine Ranks are more a waste of time than anything else. Unfortunately I prefer things to make sense (to me at least), and I don't like leaving loose ends. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />WotC scaled back their Demon and Devil Lords so that people could interact with them on a non-epic (or divine) basis. While theres nothing wrong with that in itself, my own iterations pay homage to such beings rightful (and original) status.That would be incongruous. You can't have gaping holes in demonic evolution (for instance).That said, I only really want to present workable guidelines, rather than a concrete cosmos - because most DMs will have their own ideas about this anyway. I agree (though all spirits do have at worst a loose hierarchy of power, even the Slaad*), but you can't have gaping holes in such a hierarchy without feasible reasoning.Of course Slaadi are not chaos incarnate, but thats a discussion for another time. It was never fully explained why Demogorgon was a Lesser Deity; Lolth was an Intermediate Deity and Graz'zt was 'just a powerful demon' back in 2nd Ed. I think that Monarch/Prince/Lord hierarchy is fairly well defined. I may have been among the first to parallel it to 'actual' divine power, but its a useful and worthwhile comparison. Not something I would enforce vehemently but rather as a general rule of thumb. Within certain parameters yes. But I don't think divine status is one of those flexible parameters, at least not without due reason or some blurring of the edges.Clearly Demogorgon, Orcus and Graz'zt (among others) are on the same 'strata' with regards power. Whether this is power from glory (worshippers) or power gained through battle all amounts to the same thing. I haven't made Balors 'Hero-deities' per se but rather the power they hold effectively puts them on the same strata as Hero-deities.So they do. Thats what they are made from.Not necessarily, its okay to keep mortals 'in the dark' about such things, but once your PCs become hero-deities they will come to find they are yet again small fish in a large pond...how large the pond depends on the DM.I agree up to a point, though as a general rule of thumb position and power should go hand in hand (in the Outer Planes at least).In Abyssal politics power is everything, the strong seek to dominate the weak. As you yourself pose, once one has an advantage abyssal politics will shift to counter such. Were Lolth to move against Orcus; Zuggtmoy may aid him. While Demogorgon may aid Lolth; Graz'zt must step in to check Lolth/Demogorgons advantage etc. etc. But centuries of constant war have forged the current hierarchy and stalemate to the position its in today. Which is why the upper echelons are 'roughly' balanced. While monarch may still war against monarch, none have a clear advantage. Probably, that sounds like me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Any stepping order would simply represent a convenient description. Likewise, just because Lolth is an Intermediate Power doesn't mean that Demogorgon cannot be.I can't help but think such a weakness would be clearly perceived and exploited by an enemy.I mean think about it. Does an army generally consist of a single 20th-level General leading hundreds or thousands of 1st-levelers!? Of course not, within the ranks are soldiers of variable experience the more powerful acting as Colonels; Captains; Lieutenants etc.This is the difference between an open and closed cosmology; or even the difference between a mundane and divine campaign.Its one thing for the party to be in awe of a hero-deity when they have barely encroached upon epic levels, but when your PCs are already demigods (or better), obviously they won't be so impressed.I'll give it some thought. Thanks for the feedback mate. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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