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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 1197614" data-attributes="member: 326">Hi Alzrius mate! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Its easily done. I would probably use one divine status as a general rule of thumb, you don't want to get too carried away. But all pantheons would be treated thusly.But no one deity in the Pantheon could challenge them.Even from a mechanical point of view its a total distraction to fracture divinity into yet smaller component parts. At epic/immortal levels you want things to be as simple as possible. 1st Ed. Deities & Demigods (Legends & Lore print) outlined that all such unique creatures were equivalent to Lesser Gods; here it is word for word:Note that this was prior to (1st Ed.) Monster Manual 2, but obviously sets the guidelines for that books unique creatures too.Even the divine can be monstrous. Trust me when I say that 2nd Ed. was their darkest hour. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />I remember reading some argument of Monte's that he said this was how such beings were initially detailed in 1st Ed. and that the BoVD was simply bringing them back to their roots; but this was of course not quite the full story (as I have shown). It doesn't feel right that the likes of Bahamut and Tiamat are Lesser Deities; and Lolth is an Intermediate deity when you have their former peers (and betters in some cases) languishing as mere quasi-gods.Obviously thats the case at the very top but the hierarchy of the Abyss (to use one example) is well established at least until you reach the Demon Monarchs.Indeed. As long as its obvious to me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Another thing to consider is planar power. If the Slaad only have one Lesser God; three Demigods and a Quasi-deity its not going to be very long before they are invaded and conquered (probably by some conspiring Abyssal Rulers in one of their more expansionistic moments).<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The best ever depictions of the lower planes are from Gary Gygax' Gord the Rogue series of novels.Thats the sort of jive that makes 2nd Ed. all the more dangerous to young minds. Obviously Graz'zt wants as much power as possible; the very idea that he would not want to become a god (or godlike) is laughable.That said they could have meant he is less inclined to facilitate worship. The Immortals Handbook distinguishes between power gained through worship and personal power/divinity (derived 'quickening' style). But they all add up to the same thing. 'Immortals' (such as demons) may have a higher percentage of personal power whilst 'Deities' (such as the Norse Pantheon) would likely have a higher percentage from worship. But there is no real black and white here. So Graz'zt may well have some worshippers whilst Thor would have likely some personal power derived from victories over the millenia.  Yes it would.I think you are refering to enemies who are not 'out in the open' (as indeed Graz'zt is). The only time less powerful enemies survive is when they can hide. Graz'zt rules over a number of layers of the Abyss. He can't hide without giving up his territory.Perhaps divinity is too strong a term for you. Think 'spirit'. Naturally.Absolutely.They are both Demon Monarchs."Demon Lord: A being of power who rules part of a layer of the Abyss.""Demon Prince: A being of power who rules at least one complete layer of the Abyss and who is served by one or more Demon Lords.""Demon Monarch: A being of power who rules multiple layers of the Abyss and who is served by one or more Demon Princes." Well the various powers that be are always looking for one advantage or another. There is also the possibility of outside interference (The Gord the Rogue novels give a good depiction of how something can upset the balance of the Abyss).More 2nd Ed. jive. Why did Kiaransalee assassinate Orcus in the first place? Did she not have the brains to understand that eliminating one Demon Monarch would have brought the whole race down on her stupid head. No one in the Abyss is going to tolerate such an afront to demonkind not perpetrated by one of their own.They are both Demon Monarchs. Almost universally that will be the case. In any society in D&DUnless you have a specific reason* you would have to imagine that over time certain Ulitharids will become Hero-deities; Quasi-deities or possibly even Demigods. Perhaps Ilsensine will spawn some offspring to fill such roles.*Such as the Githyanki Queen Demigod murdering all Githyanki over 17th-level.More WotC heel dragging.I am not concerned about the OGL anymore though. I have scaled things back any ELH material to the bare essentials and if I can get a few weeks work on the IH I'll have it finished.</blockquote>

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