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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5002894" data-attributes="member: 82106">Actually JBear's question is a valid question. His reasoning is as follows:He took the Bard MC feat which says &quot;you can wield bard implements&quot;. He does not have the bard class feature that lets him wield them and limits that to bard powers. That is not a general rule, its a rule applicable to the bard class (otherwise it would be in some &quot;general implements&quot; rule). The Bardic Dilettante feat simply says he can wield bard implements, it doesn't say &quot;only for bard powers&quot;. Thus the question becomes, what CAN he wield them for? The answer seems to be implement use rules for classes are simply general rules. It isn't clear really. There is an implements section of the class, but is it part of &quot;class features&quot; or is it a separate top level rule that gets applied any time someone is a bard? It seems pretty clear to me that the rules for bard implements have to be construed as a general rule otherwise Bardic Dilettante gives you use of bard implements for what? Nothing. Its just not the clearest thing in the world and I can see how some people might be confused about it. To consider the general case a bit more someone who's a sorcerer MC to bard is going to need to take the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat OR acquire something like a Harsh Songblade Dagger (which they can use for either classes powers). When you come to MCing into implement using classes that are in different power sources things do get a good bit more difficult. There is no AIP equivalent for Primal or Divine powers. Your shaman trying to MC to an arcane class could take AIP, but it would not do them any good. Instead you would need an item that is both a primal AND an arcane implement. AFAIK there is no such item currently. There are &quot;crossover&quot; items in AV2 between arcane and divine and I seem to recall there are also for divine/primal but some combinations are simply disfavored by the implement rules. A sorcerer/druid is probably overall not a very viable combination. We could argue about whether it should be or not, but I don't think it is as of now.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5002894, member: 82106"] Actually JBear's question is a valid question. His reasoning is as follows: He took the Bard MC feat which says "you can wield bard implements". He does not have the bard class feature that lets him wield them and limits that to bard powers. That is not a general rule, its a rule applicable to the bard class (otherwise it would be in some "general implements" rule). The Bardic Dilettante feat simply says he can wield bard implements, it doesn't say "only for bard powers". Thus the question becomes, what CAN he wield them for? The answer seems to be implement use rules for classes are simply general rules. It isn't clear really. There is an implements section of the class, but is it part of "class features" or is it a separate top level rule that gets applied any time someone is a bard? It seems pretty clear to me that the rules for bard implements have to be construed as a general rule otherwise Bardic Dilettante gives you use of bard implements for what? Nothing. Its just not the clearest thing in the world and I can see how some people might be confused about it. To consider the general case a bit more someone who's a sorcerer MC to bard is going to need to take the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat OR acquire something like a Harsh Songblade Dagger (which they can use for either classes powers). When you come to MCing into implement using classes that are in different power sources things do get a good bit more difficult. There is no AIP equivalent for Primal or Divine powers. Your shaman trying to MC to an arcane class could take AIP, but it would not do them any good. Instead you would need an item that is both a primal AND an arcane implement. AFAIK there is no such item currently. There are "crossover" items in AV2 between arcane and divine and I seem to recall there are also for divine/primal but some combinations are simply disfavored by the implement rules. A sorcerer/druid is probably overall not a very viable combination. We could argue about whether it should be or not, but I don't think it is as of now. [/QUOTE]

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