Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Impossible Ability Test
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Riley37" data-source="post: 6460719" data-attributes="member: 6786839"><p>Yes it should, and does, and it says so in Basic Rules. Why are you even asking?</p><p></p><p>"Your Intelligence (Nature) check measures your ability to recall lore about terrain, plants and animals, the weather, and natural cycles." Camels, and other beasts, are animals. QED.</p><p>"Your Intelligence (Arcana) check measures your ability to recall lore about... the planes of existence, and the inhabitants of those planes." Celestials, fiends, and elementals are inhabitants of planes. QED. The Undead are linked to the Shadowfell, and the fey to the Feywild; whether Arcana includes lore on them is less cut-and-dried. (I'm assuming that Arcana covers *other* planes, and not all inhabitants of the Prime Material plane.)</p><p>"The DM might ask you to make a Wisdom (Survival) check to ... identify signs that owlbears live nearby..."</p><p>If you would tell me that my PC recognizes signs that owlbears live nearby, *and also doesn't have any idea whether an owlbear is Tiny or Huge*, then you can kinda claim RAW but I'm darn glad I'm not at your table.</p><p></p><p>Lore won't tell you armor class and hit dice, resistances and vulnerabilities, unless your setting includes someone who measures such things and add them to lore. It doesn't mean that the player gets to open up the Monster Manual and treat that information as PC knowledge. If that's what you have in mind, could you please say so? Because the OP wasn't about whether the PC would know stat blocks; it was about whether the PC might know the NAME of the critter they saw.</p><p></p><p>Lore DOES mean that a PC can reasonably know about dragons - to the extent that people in King Arthur's court knew what the Epic of Beowulf says about dragons, taking that as a typical source of lore for that setting. There's some important info about dragons in Beowulf: they hoard wealth and get angry when it's stolen, they breathe fire, a single dragon can kill a great warrior, etc. Anyone who's heard the Odyssey has access to lore about cyclopes. Not even a Sage always remembers everything they've ever heard in passing, but INT represents recall and education, and on a sufficient INT-based success, that lore includes: cyclopes eat sheep and humans, are descended from Poseidon and are under his protection, can throw rocks well enough to sink ships, at least one of them was easy to get falling-down drunk, that one was named Polyphemos.</p><p></p><p>"So if you use this variant, what monsters does a Guild Artisan know about? What about a Noble or Folk Hero?"</p><p>A Guild Artisan herald knows about lions, as those are monsters used in heraldry; a herald knows they are quadrupeds with fangs and claws, and associated with valor. A Noble also knows a bit about heraldry. A Guild Artisan tanner knows what wolves and bears are, if they've ever tanned those hides, or even if they've just been trained to tan those hides. A bowyer knows about monsters whose gut or sinew is used to make bowstrings. And so on. That's not from DMG, which I don't have; it would be my ruling.</p><p></p><p>"I think it is nigh-infinitely more interesting and fun to make them learn about monsters, at least those outside of the common experience of their race and culture, through experience."</p><p></p><p>That clause in the middle makes all the difference. In Forgotten Realms, goblins and giants ARE in the common experience of the race and culture of any dwarf. In 1E, *every* adventuring dwarf knew so much about giants, that they got an effective +4 AC, although the mechanic was a penalty to the giant's roll. Does that mean a dwarven PC knows that there are hill, fire, frost and storm giants? It's not in RAW, but I'd allow an INT roll, with a bonus if they spoke Giant (and thus might be aware of dialects of Giant).</p><p></p><p>Legolas recognized the balrog in Moria as a balrog. I'd bet that Gandalf had an approximate idea of its stats, and that none of the hobbits knew any lore at all about balrogs. Circe told Odysseus enough about the Sirens, that he had his crew plug their ears. Do your players prefer that none of their PCs ever know, on first contact with a monster, as much as Legolas or Odysseus did?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Riley37, post: 6460719, member: 6786839"] Yes it should, and does, and it says so in Basic Rules. Why are you even asking? "Your Intelligence (Nature) check measures your ability to recall lore about terrain, plants and animals, the weather, and natural cycles." Camels, and other beasts, are animals. QED. "Your Intelligence (Arcana) check measures your ability to recall lore about... the planes of existence, and the inhabitants of those planes." Celestials, fiends, and elementals are inhabitants of planes. QED. The Undead are linked to the Shadowfell, and the fey to the Feywild; whether Arcana includes lore on them is less cut-and-dried. (I'm assuming that Arcana covers *other* planes, and not all inhabitants of the Prime Material plane.) "The DM might ask you to make a Wisdom (Survival) check to ... identify signs that owlbears live nearby..." If you would tell me that my PC recognizes signs that owlbears live nearby, *and also doesn't have any idea whether an owlbear is Tiny or Huge*, then you can kinda claim RAW but I'm darn glad I'm not at your table. Lore won't tell you armor class and hit dice, resistances and vulnerabilities, unless your setting includes someone who measures such things and add them to lore. It doesn't mean that the player gets to open up the Monster Manual and treat that information as PC knowledge. If that's what you have in mind, could you please say so? Because the OP wasn't about whether the PC would know stat blocks; it was about whether the PC might know the NAME of the critter they saw. Lore DOES mean that a PC can reasonably know about dragons - to the extent that people in King Arthur's court knew what the Epic of Beowulf says about dragons, taking that as a typical source of lore for that setting. There's some important info about dragons in Beowulf: they hoard wealth and get angry when it's stolen, they breathe fire, a single dragon can kill a great warrior, etc. Anyone who's heard the Odyssey has access to lore about cyclopes. Not even a Sage always remembers everything they've ever heard in passing, but INT represents recall and education, and on a sufficient INT-based success, that lore includes: cyclopes eat sheep and humans, are descended from Poseidon and are under his protection, can throw rocks well enough to sink ships, at least one of them was easy to get falling-down drunk, that one was named Polyphemos. "So if you use this variant, what monsters does a Guild Artisan know about? What about a Noble or Folk Hero?" A Guild Artisan herald knows about lions, as those are monsters used in heraldry; a herald knows they are quadrupeds with fangs and claws, and associated with valor. A Noble also knows a bit about heraldry. A Guild Artisan tanner knows what wolves and bears are, if they've ever tanned those hides, or even if they've just been trained to tan those hides. A bowyer knows about monsters whose gut or sinew is used to make bowstrings. And so on. That's not from DMG, which I don't have; it would be my ruling. "I think it is nigh-infinitely more interesting and fun to make them learn about monsters, at least those outside of the common experience of their race and culture, through experience." That clause in the middle makes all the difference. In Forgotten Realms, goblins and giants ARE in the common experience of the race and culture of any dwarf. In 1E, *every* adventuring dwarf knew so much about giants, that they got an effective +4 AC, although the mechanic was a penalty to the giant's roll. Does that mean a dwarven PC knows that there are hill, fire, frost and storm giants? It's not in RAW, but I'd allow an INT roll, with a bonus if they spoke Giant (and thus might be aware of dialects of Giant). Legolas recognized the balrog in Moria as a balrog. I'd bet that Gandalf had an approximate idea of its stats, and that none of the hobbits knew any lore at all about balrogs. Circe told Odysseus enough about the Sirens, that he had his crew plug their ears. Do your players prefer that none of their PCs ever know, on first contact with a monster, as much as Legolas or Odysseus did? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Impossible Ability Test
Top