Impossible To Run A GameForked Thread: I Owe Wizards an Apology

[JoeGKushner]

I have a few things I'd like to discuss here.

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

Forked from: I Owe Wizards an Apology

I gave up GMing settings with a lot of novels that I haven't read. I always ended up with at least a couple of players that have read everything ever written about the world and make it impossible to run a game.

It always ended up going like this.
Me:"The minotaur pirate swings his axe at you."
Player:"Wait, is that a Piggledyguk tribe minotaur or a Kryptar one?"
Me:"Uh, it's a Kryptar."
Player:"Kryptar minotaurs fear water worse than death, and can never be found onboard a ship."
Me:"It's a Piggeldyguk then."
Player:"They're universally lawful and would never be a pirate."
Me:"OK. The orc pirate swings his axe at you."
Player:"Is it a Humptar or a Grellion clan orc?"
Me:"Arrgh!"

I can only imagine the nightmare of trying to write in such a setting.

 

[Crothian]

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

I do expect the DM to know the setting. If the DM does not know the setting then he should be running something else.

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

No, not left a game. Games have ended for this reason though.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

Depends on the character but this is very important to try to think about it before the campaign starts. Most of the time the player will know more then the character so one needs to be careful.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

never

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

Not very, but when running a game like this with lots of books and information out there before the first session I talk with the players and we discuss how true to all the sources they want the game to be. I try to get everyone on the same page in terms of expectations to setting cannon.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

Nope

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

Nope

I always game with friends and we are adults. If someone is ruining the fun for someone else we talk it out.

 

[Andor]

I have a few things I'd like to discuss here.

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

As in any game, it depends on the character and what skills they have. That having been said I do think that D&D tends to get skill difficulties backwards so that knowing about an obscure but weak creature is easier than knowing about a legend with too many hitdice. It's as though it's more common to know the details of the assault on San Juan Hill than to have heard of WW II.

Sorry, drifted off topic there. ^^;

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

No, but I have been heartily annoyed. I have left games because the playstyle was too different from what I expected/wanted but that's not the same thing.

 

[possum]

I feel somewhat uncomfortable playing in a game that almost disregards canon when it comes to Star Wars. I can still play, but I do feel somewhat like a fish out of water. I have refused to play in Legacy era campaigns because of this, and the one I did play in was because another player in a DoD game I'm in was running it.

As for Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms and the other D&D settings, I really couldn't care less.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?
It depends on how invested I am in the campaign. I know very little about the DC universe, so I'd be unlikely to care how close it was to the real thing. On the other hand, I know enough of the backstory of Superman that I'd feel rather cheated if Kryptonite didn't affect him.

On the other hand, I really like Star Wars. It's likely a GM could run a Star Wars game I'd be satisfied with as long as they avoided some of the major characters. But I expect Luke Skywalker to be one of the pilots attacking the Death Star if I'm there. I'd feel rather cheated if he wasn't. Unless the GM specifically said that he was running an alternate version of Star Wars where we were the heroes instead of Luke.


As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?
No, so far every GM I've played under has stayed true enough.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?
I often assume he knows common facts. I determine what "common" facts are based on my knowledge of the setting. I think most people in a Republic Era Star Wars game would have heard of the Jedi. People in an Empire Era game may not have...or have heard incorrect rumors.

On the other hand, if I knew nothing about Star Wars(and thus had never heard of Jedi myself), I'd think my character knows nothing about what Jedi are unless the GM informs me.

But, if it could go either way, I often err on the side of knowledge. Mostly because I hate playing dumb. Nothing frustrates me more when I know that a guy is an evil Jedi because it's blatently obvious and all the other players know....but all of us have to pretend that we trust him anyways because we would never have heard of a Jedi before.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?
No.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?
I wouldn't knowingly contradict something in the fiction line. But I don't have enough time to read every book written either. I don't think I'd feel comfortable running a Legacy Era Star Wars game, however...since I haven't read almost ANY novels in that era. And I don't feel that the sourcebooks alone give me enough information to properly run a game that would feel right.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?
I'm close to it right now. I'm running a Star Wars game and a couple of my players insist on playing characters that are horribly out of type for Jedi. They pretty much break the Jedi Code a couple of times per session. Not because they mean to, but they don't know what it is. They don't want to learn it. All they care about is having cool Jedi powers without the role playing baggage that goes with it.

But, so far everyone is having fun. So, I clench my jaw and ignore it.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?
Not yet. No one has been quite that disruptive. But I've certainly criticized a player when they were doing things that were ruining my fun. Recently it caused one play to up and leave in the middle of the game because he felt I was bossing him around and telling him how to play his character. I felt the way he played his character was disruptive to the enjoyment of myself and likely other players who were too shy to say anything.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I have a few things I'd like to discuss here.

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

To run an interesting and fun game. I don't really care for playing in established settings unless the DM is going to facilitate in making it the players own. I'm a big Marvel guy, but when we used to play marvel super-heroes we were interested in our own little corner of the Marvel U. On the occasion that we had a marvel team-up or fight with an established villain it was something special.

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

Nope. My expectation is to adventure in the world as a character who exists in that world. Not to have that character be a Mary Sue, so that I can experience things that I've read in the books.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

Depends on the character. Once I made a super detective PC who knew quite a bit about the underpinnings of the Marvel U. But was so afraid to let people knew what he knew that he used his wealth of knowledge vary sparingly. But most of the time I play characters who are oblivious to the "grand scheme".

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

Nope. But then again I tried really hard not to play in or run Forgotten Realms / Dragonlance games because I know how those players tend to have a slavish devotion to the material.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

I dont feel constrained AT ALL. Either I won't run particular settings (FR / DL) or I tell the players the concept and the tone right up front. The SW game I'm planning on running takes place a few months after the events in RotJ. There's somewhat of a cult that's sprung up around the legend of Luke Skywalker. There's also the idea that while not all of the Jedi of old have survived some of them did survive the purge and trained enough force sensitive people in bits and pieces of the ways of the force. Also while the Empire was routed and the Rebellion is basically the new government, there are still huge Imperial Garrisons and shipyards out there. Not to mention any change in government is a RIPE time for the criminal element to make money.

Now there are ideas that are coming from the novels that took place after the OT, but I'm not wedded to any continuity. These are the things that are happening in the universe. If I had a player who wanted to play through the entire Grand Admiral Thrawn trilogy, he'd have to find another game. Thrawn might be around in my game, then again he might not.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

Nope.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

No, not since Junior High School.

Forked from: I Owe Wizards an Apology [/QUOTE]

 

[cmrscorpio]

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?
I expect the GM to understand the setting. If the DM wants to run an Forgotten Realms, I expect the DM to understand the thematic differences that set it apart from Dragonlance and Greyhawk

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?
no, I haven't

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?
Depends on the character.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?
no

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?
As long as I have cool players who understand that I reserve the right to present the campaign as I understand it, I enjoy adding elements from supplements and fiction lines. If a player starts nit-picking, it kills my enjoyment.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?
no

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?
I've been playing roleplaying games for more than a decade, GMing for the majority of that time. I've had to do it twice. One of those times was yesterday. It is a damn crappy feeling when you hve to do it.

 

[Bumbles]

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

The same as I would expect from a writer in the universe...if they're going to completely break canon, then they'd better do a good job of it and keep me entertained. Ezekiel Sims broke Spiderman Canon. I didn't mind, I was entertained. I cannot say the same about the Spider-clone saga. Even so-called authentic stories can bore me.

So really, I guess it depends on the particulars. I would hug a GM who gave me a version of Senator Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker I could believe in! Heck, I'd love a GM who flat-out told me that whole thing with Padme dying...wasn't how it happened. And then came up with something more believable. Which would include her being attacked by Captain Kirk's toupee.

Yes, George Lucas, you failed me, and there will be a reckoning.

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

Absolutely. I left a Vampire game because the GM wouldn't let me use a rule in the books regarding my clan. Not in any special book. In the main vampire book, one that was practically fundamental to the clan. Sorry, but if I can't rely on something in the main book, then I don't want to play the game.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

Depends on my character, doesn't it? In the case above, I'd consider my character knew everything in the description of the clan involved. Kind of intrinsic to the character, y'know?

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

Not for the reasons involved so far. I decline to state what reasons were involved. I am far more likely to leave than I am to force another out though.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

Enough that I avoid running in established environments with people who I don't know can handle the occasional mix-up and non-canon moment.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

Absolutely.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

You betcha.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?
No. I have left a game because the GM made me want to smack him, but never because he wasn't being 'true' to a line of fiction.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?
It depends on the character. I generally like to think of my characters as being pretty knowledgeable, regardless of my own familiarity with a system.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?
No, I've made complaints about other players to the DM and / or Host of a game, but never ultimatums or forcings out.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?
Not at all. if I think that a fictional element is cool, then I am happy to use it. If I think it doesn't fit with the feel of the campaign that I'm trying to run, I am equally as happy to abandon it for something else. Also, I feel completely free to change or add setting elements.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

No. I have made it clear that a player is no longer welcome at my table / home.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?
Yes. Though my own enjoyment is usually a factor before that of others, I'm sort of finnicky, that way.

 

[Ariosto]

I was never really big on the Third Imperium, perhaps partly because it was not yet so strongly associated with Traveller (or so detailed) when I got into the game. I have also noticed that big fans of the setting are not necessarily big fans of moving it forward to the MegaTraveller or New Era milieus.

Just last night, I floated the balloon of a new D&D campaign using the original (1987) Forgotten Realms boxed set as a basis. I also have the first six supplements, apart from FR4: The Magister, and a smattering of later ones.

I made it very clear that this would be "my" Realms, and the initial response was quite positive. These players could as easily have gone in for Greyhawk, though, or something original (but within their limited range of tastes).

So, I'm dealing with a different demographic than the one that has absorbed two or three decades' worth of voluminous product.

One thing, though, is that most people have a limit on that horizon. Someone who is so well versed in 20 years of Marvel or DC comics lore might not know much about continuity from further back. Golden Age material is particularly hard to acquire.

In watching a movie or something, I might have fun playing a "catch the glitch" trivia game -- but it would not be something to get steamed over unless I thought that fundamentally essential things had been treated with contempt.

In a game, I consider the "what if" aspect intrinsic. In an RPG, the point of the affair seems to me for the players to make history. Even the greatest stickler should be able, I think, to accept that "canon" does not apply after year X or beyond a certain geographical region, and that things such as ancient history need be consistent only with what is detailed in a limited body of work.

I prefer to go further in making a setting my own. It seems to me difficult actually to play a lively game without it departing increasingly from someone else's version. How do people keep up with a continual stream of "official" material, especially when that is not limited to areas beyond clearly marked frontiers? Even with the latter, is it not a drag needing to avoid pressing past those (whether in space or in time) in one's campaign?

It seems to me the differences among thousands of ongoing games, even between one and another, must be more significant than anything introduced by a publisher trying to stay true to the enduring, broad strokes that define a setting. A game master who knows enough to identify important changes should also be competent enough to revise what needs revision for smooth integration into his or her own campaign.