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Improved Initiative and the wizard
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2921462" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Making up the DM cards takes the same time regardless. Making up the init cards takes the same time regardless (ours were made up years ago). You do not have to make up a "DM tactics card" for each opponent. Are you assuming here that you need a "DM tactics card" for each opponent? No, you do not. You need one per group of opponents, just like in your current game. So, there is no extra time for making up cards.</p><p></p><p>And, you do not need the "the DM tactics cards" to be in "initiative order" either. This is not much of an argument. You might save a few seconds here and there not having to pick up the "card you need" at a specific point in time, but we waste more time than that with a single joke in our game than you would save in an entire battle.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem with your solution is that it either allows the game to become very predictable and deterministic (e.g. the Wizard goes before all of the Orcs, so he fireballs them most combats; or the Orcs go before the Wizard, so they gang grapple him most combats), or the DM is forced to use sub-optimal tactics per opponent to not take advantage of a group of opponents all going at the same time.</p><p></p><p>We once played in a GURPS campaign where initiative was determined by the order of the players sitting around the room. So, with players A, B, C, D and DM E, initiative went A, B, C, D, and all of the NPCs of E. Every round. It sucked. No PC in the group could ever react to the actions of any given NPC (except ones late in the NPC order) until much later in the round.</p><p></p><p>This is not much different than putting 6 or 8 NPC similar opponents in a single initiative in DND. The latter situation is not quite as predictable and boring as the GURPS campaign I was in, but it nearly as bad.</p><p></p><p>If you have 8 Orcs and #1 trips the PC Fighter in round one, then Orcs #2 through #8 can then run up 30 feet (or 20 feet armor depending) and get the +4 prone bonus EVERY time (either that, or the DM has to use sub-optimal tactics). There is no chance of the two PCs within 5 feet of the Fighter stepping up to protect him before the Orcs get to him. There is no real chance of those two PCs "saving the day" by stepping up and protecting their fallen ally. There is no chance that the Fighter gets back up before the other 7 Orcs get to him.</p><p></p><p>None of the players can be a hero because by the time any of the PC can react, the situation is already resolved.</p><p></p><p>Sorry, but that's too deterministic and it changes the entire NPC tactics and balance of the game to one of "he who goes first, wins with his allies". Either that, or the DM is forced to metagame NPC decisions. Yikes! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 2921462, member: 2011"] Making up the DM cards takes the same time regardless. Making up the init cards takes the same time regardless (ours were made up years ago). You do not have to make up a "DM tactics card" for each opponent. Are you assuming here that you need a "DM tactics card" for each opponent? No, you do not. You need one per group of opponents, just like in your current game. So, there is no extra time for making up cards. And, you do not need the "the DM tactics cards" to be in "initiative order" either. This is not much of an argument. You might save a few seconds here and there not having to pick up the "card you need" at a specific point in time, but we waste more time than that with a single joke in our game than you would save in an entire battle. The problem with your solution is that it either allows the game to become very predictable and deterministic (e.g. the Wizard goes before all of the Orcs, so he fireballs them most combats; or the Orcs go before the Wizard, so they gang grapple him most combats), or the DM is forced to use sub-optimal tactics per opponent to not take advantage of a group of opponents all going at the same time. We once played in a GURPS campaign where initiative was determined by the order of the players sitting around the room. So, with players A, B, C, D and DM E, initiative went A, B, C, D, and all of the NPCs of E. Every round. It sucked. No PC in the group could ever react to the actions of any given NPC (except ones late in the NPC order) until much later in the round. This is not much different than putting 6 or 8 NPC similar opponents in a single initiative in DND. The latter situation is not quite as predictable and boring as the GURPS campaign I was in, but it nearly as bad. If you have 8 Orcs and #1 trips the PC Fighter in round one, then Orcs #2 through #8 can then run up 30 feet (or 20 feet armor depending) and get the +4 prone bonus EVERY time (either that, or the DM has to use sub-optimal tactics). There is no chance of the two PCs within 5 feet of the Fighter stepping up to protect him before the Orcs get to him. There is no real chance of those two PCs "saving the day" by stepping up and protecting their fallen ally. There is no chance that the Fighter gets back up before the other 7 Orcs get to him. None of the players can be a hero because by the time any of the PC can react, the situation is already resolved. Sorry, but that's too deterministic and it changes the entire NPC tactics and balance of the game to one of "he who goes first, wins with his allies". Either that, or the DM is forced to metagame NPC decisions. Yikes! :) [/QUOTE]
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