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<blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 1338586" data-attributes="member: 9002">thanks korak!The spreadsheet rulz!In general, archers lag behind as you noted, from between 15-20 usually at lower AC's.I've looked at a more &quot;optimized&quot; archer setup, with the archer using a +1 &quot;holy&quot; longbow instead of a +3 bow, ditto for the fighter's greatsword (+1 holy).In general, the more bonuses you can give an archer (flat or not) the better the archer is, because of the increased number of attacks.With the +2d6 extra &quot;holy&quot; damage per shot (assuming evil bad guys), the greatsword again does more damage than the bow.AC / Melee Damage/ Archer Damage / WINNER15&nbsp; &nbsp; 55.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 45.7&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master16&nbsp; &nbsp; 55.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 45.7&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master17&nbsp; &nbsp; 55.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 45.7&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master18&nbsp; &nbsp; 55.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 45.7&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master19&nbsp; &nbsp; 55.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 45.0&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master20&nbsp; &nbsp; 55.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 44.3&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master21&nbsp; &nbsp; 55.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 43.6&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master22&nbsp; &nbsp; 53.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 42.8&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master23&nbsp; &nbsp; 51.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 42.1&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master24&nbsp; &nbsp; 49.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 39.7&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master25&nbsp; &nbsp; 47.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 37.3&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master26&nbsp; &nbsp; 36.4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 34.9&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master27&nbsp; &nbsp; 33.4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 32.5&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master28&nbsp; &nbsp; 30.5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 30.1&nbsp; &nbsp; Melee Master29&nbsp; &nbsp; 27.6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 27.7&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer30&nbsp; &nbsp; 24.6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25.3&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer31&nbsp; &nbsp; 21.7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 22.9&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer32&nbsp; &nbsp; 18.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20.5&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer33&nbsp; &nbsp; 15.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18.0&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer34&nbsp; &nbsp; 12.9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 15.6&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer35&nbsp; &nbsp; 10.0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 13.2&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer36&nbsp; &nbsp; 7.0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10.8&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer37&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8.4&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer38&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6.0&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer39&nbsp; &nbsp; -1.8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.6&nbsp; &nbsp; Archer40&nbsp; &nbsp; -4.7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1.2&nbsp; &nbsp; ArcherIt's pretty consistently 10 more than the archer until AC=29.&nbsp; This has the melee monster on 50/50 full attack/charge, and the archer on 75/25 full attack/standard.The question is, is a lousy 10 points more damage per round to AC's less than 29 worth the price you pay to wade into combat?(as a side note, if a bard is singing for +2/+2 while these guys are fighting, the spread narrows to 9 or so until AC=29 when the archer wins).Obviously, I think the archer has it easy.&nbsp; I'd like to see the archer doing 20 less per round at least -- heck, he's not in any danger (or, not as much).&nbsp; But maybe that's just me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="two, post: 1338586, member: 9002"] [b]thanks korak![/b] The spreadsheet rulz! In general, archers lag behind as you noted, from between 15-20 usually at lower AC's. I've looked at a more "optimized" archer setup, with the archer using a +1 "holy" longbow instead of a +3 bow, ditto for the fighter's greatsword (+1 holy). In general, the more bonuses you can give an archer (flat or not) the better the archer is, because of the increased number of attacks. With the +2d6 extra "holy" damage per shot (assuming evil bad guys), the greatsword again does more damage than the bow. AC / Melee Damage/ Archer Damage / WINNER 15 55.8 45.7 Melee Master 16 55.8 45.7 Melee Master 17 55.8 45.7 Melee Master 18 55.8 45.7 Melee Master 19 55.8 45.0 Melee Master 20 55.8 44.3 Melee Master 21 55.8 43.6 Melee Master 22 53.8 42.8 Melee Master 23 51.8 42.1 Melee Master 24 49.8 39.7 Melee Master 25 47.8 37.3 Melee Master 26 36.4 34.9 Melee Master 27 33.4 32.5 Melee Master 28 30.5 30.1 Melee Master 29 27.6 27.7 Archer 30 24.6 25.3 Archer 31 21.7 22.9 Archer 32 18.8 20.5 Archer 33 15.8 18.0 Archer 34 12.9 15.6 Archer 35 10.0 13.2 Archer 36 7.0 10.8 Archer 37 4.1 8.4 Archer 38 1.1 6.0 Archer 39 -1.8 3.6 Archer 40 -4.7 1.2 Archer It's pretty consistently 10 more than the archer until AC=29. This has the melee monster on 50/50 full attack/charge, and the archer on 75/25 full attack/standard. The question is, is a lousy 10 points more damage per round to AC's less than 29 worth the price you pay to wade into combat? (as a side note, if a bard is singing for +2/+2 while these guys are fighting, the spread narrows to 9 or so until AC=29 when the archer wins). Obviously, I think the archer has it easy. I'd like to see the archer doing 20 less per round at least -- heck, he's not in any danger (or, not as much). But maybe that's just me. [/QUOTE]

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