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<blockquote data-quote="Martin Olarin" data-source="post: 371707" data-attributes="member: 2349">Grappling by itself isn't overpowered - the feats in OA and any feat that completely by passes the AOO that could block a grapple are what are, or would be, overpowered.The monk being able to start a grapple by simply making a touch attack w/o the possibility of it being blocked by an AOO is a frightening prospect.&nbsp; The monk would be able to limit his opponent to using small weapons while he is doing D6 + damage.&nbsp; In some ways a straight fighter is worse since he is more likely to have a higher strength than the monk, and thus is more likely to win the grapple check.&nbsp; A fighter grappler would effectively limit his opponents to small weapons or unarmed attacks (which may invoke AOO if the grappler has Improved Unarmed Strike depending on dm ruling).&nbsp; It is even more powerfull against spell casters.&nbsp; Add in in Weapon Focus and Specialization in grapple and you have a character well designed to take out just about any other character except the Monk (and even there the Monk is likely to loose the grapple oppossed role).This line of thinking is why I would lean towards allowing a feat to avoid the initial blocking AOO with some kind of oppossed role - grapple would still be very nice - but not an automatic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Martin Olarin, post: 371707, member: 2349"] Grappling by itself isn't overpowered - the feats in OA and any feat that completely by passes the AOO that could block a grapple are what are, or would be, overpowered. The monk being able to start a grapple by simply making a touch attack w/o the possibility of it being blocked by an AOO is a frightening prospect. The monk would be able to limit his opponent to using small weapons while he is doing D6 + damage. In some ways a straight fighter is worse since he is more likely to have a higher strength than the monk, and thus is more likely to win the grapple check. A fighter grappler would effectively limit his opponents to small weapons or unarmed attacks (which may invoke AOO if the grappler has Improved Unarmed Strike depending on dm ruling). It is even more powerfull against spell casters. Add in in Weapon Focus and Specialization in grapple and you have a character well designed to take out just about any other character except the Monk (and even there the Monk is likely to loose the grapple oppossed role). This line of thinking is why I would lean towards allowing a feat to avoid the initial blocking AOO with some kind of oppossed role - grapple would still be very nice - but not an automatic. [/QUOTE]

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