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<blockquote data-quote="Herzog" data-source="post: 4774678" data-attributes="member: 25696">How about this:1. Don't make the knowledge skill class skills. I know it will limit the usefullness of the ability (see below) but it is a representation of the rogue having to really want this.1.a. As an option, allow the rogue to permanently sacrifice a sneak attack die to take a specific knowledge skill as class skill.2. Allow a knowledge vs 10+HD check to 'find the weak spot' (as a swift action). This is a standard monster knowledge check, but specifically targeted on finding out how to damage a monster immune to sneak attack anyway. For every 5 point by which you beat the DC, you are allowed a sneak attack die, with a maximum of the maximum sneak attack damage you normally do. You still need to satisfy all the other requirements for sneak attack, like flanking or no dex bonus to ac etc. you also still need to hit the target. The knowledge only is good for this round, and a new check has to be made next round.2.a. As an option, allow the first sneak attack die at 10+HD.2.b. As an option, allow bonusses (+2) for successfull checks in earlier rounds, regardless of hit/miss ( this would allow a rogue to study the target for several rounds, getting a better idea each time how to hurt it)If you really want to go the AC route, you could use the same mechanic, but allow -1AC for each 5 points by which you beat the monster knowledge DC, or even a combination. (beat by 10, use -1AC and +1d6 SA)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Herzog, post: 4774678, member: 25696"] How about this: 1. Don't make the knowledge skill class skills. I know it will limit the usefullness of the ability (see below) but it is a representation of the rogue having to really want this. 1.a. As an option, allow the rogue to permanently sacrifice a sneak attack die to take a specific knowledge skill as class skill. 2. Allow a knowledge vs 10+HD check to 'find the weak spot' (as a swift action). This is a standard monster knowledge check, but specifically targeted on finding out how to damage a monster immune to sneak attack anyway. For every 5 point by which you beat the DC, you are allowed a sneak attack die, with a maximum of the maximum sneak attack damage you normally do. You still need to satisfy all the other requirements for sneak attack, like flanking or no dex bonus to ac etc. you also still need to hit the target. The knowledge only is good for this round, and a new check has to be made next round. 2.a. As an option, allow the first sneak attack die at 10+HD. 2.b. As an option, allow bonusses (+2) for successfull checks in earlier rounds, regardless of hit/miss ( this would allow a rogue to study the target for several rounds, getting a better idea each time how to hurt it) If you really want to go the AC route, you could use the same mechanic, but allow -1AC for each 5 points by which you beat the monster knowledge DC, or even a combination. (beat by 10, use -1AC and +1d6 SA) [/QUOTE]

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