Improving Critical Hits

[Neuroglyph]

I've recently worked on a system to improve on Critical Hits as my players and I found the current method of just causing Max Damage to be a bit anti-climatic.

I worked on a system to use existing combat conditions to add flavor to a critical hit, in addition to the standard max hp damage.

I'd be interested in any feedback folks may have - Critical Hits for 4e D&D

 

[BobTheNob]

I respect your intention, but I have seen this before...many times. Even played with similar rules (actually, practically identical).

Eventually, questions started getting raised "How can a fire attack smack someone in the face?"...So we developed a chart for fire attacks. Then some started complaining "How can I cause a head injury against something bigger than me?", so the charts became locational, then the question was raised "But shouldnt higher level abilities have greater influence on the outcome?", so now critical factor variants were introduced, then the question became "If a critical factor variant for power X is applied to a leg attack, but its psycic damage...why did I get a bleeing wound in his gut...?"

One round of combat took could take HOURS because of the rules and counter rules and table lookups!

Then you have the whole aspect that you have focused on weakened, slowed, dazed and stunned in the consequnces, creating an artifical shift toward gear and abilities that directly counter these effects

If you really want to make criticals more exciting, try building more feats that effect crits, or gear with more interesting crit effects. Allow players to base effects off crits (like a feat that can stun target when crit with a mace or hammer when using an encounter power...). It remains consistant with 4e design in general (which doent use a hell of alot of "chart reosolution") and allows more interesting critical to manifest through character growth

If charted crits for you, good luck. But for my part...been there, done that, know better.

 

[Nytmare]

I think that at it's pinnacle, my group's AD&D crit and fumble charts (built if memory serves on the bones of the Rolemaster and Arduin crit and fumble tables) were a bound book that involved the following series of charts: attack/weapon type (Sword? Acid sword? Flaming acid sword swung two handed while on horseback?) > creature type (basically what limbs and appendages the victim had) > armor type > attack location (which was dictated #1 by whether you were attacking from the front/rear/sides/above/below, and #2 whether or not you were aiming or making a called shot for a specific part of the body) > and then, depending on how much damage you did (broken down perhaps by levels of 10?) you rolled on one of 80 different chart for the effect.

It was silly and stupid, and for some ungodly reason the thought of it STILL fills me with insipid gamer glee. Crit charts just seem like a good idea to some base animalistic part of my brain and I have never been able to figure out why. One of the first house rules we talked about instituting with my 4E group was a rewrite of our 3rd Edition charts.

If we were to do a crit chart, it would be something close to what you have; but, we've had the talk like 4 or 5 times since we started the campaign, and even though everyone likes the idea of having one, we've talked ourselves out of it every time.

 

[King Nate]

I respect your intention, but I have seen this before...many times. Even played with similar rules (actually, practically identical).

Eventually, questions started getting raised "How can a fire attack smack someone in the face?"...So we developed a chart for fire attacks. Then some started complaining "How can I cause a head injury against something bigger than me?", so the charts became locational, then the question was raised "But shouldnt higher level abilities have greater influence on the outcome?", so now critical factor variants were introduced, then the question became "If a critical factor variant for power X is applied to a leg attack, but its psycic damage...why did I get a bleeing wound in his gut...?"

One round of combat took could take HOURS because of the rules and counter rules and table lookups!

Then you have the whole aspect that you have focused on weakened, slowed, dazed and stunned in the consequnces, creating an artifical shift toward gear and abilities that directly counter these effects

If you really want to make criticals more exciting, try building more feats that effect crits, or gear with more interesting crit effects. Allow players to base effects off crits (like a feat that can stun target when crit with a mace or hammer when using an encounter power...). It remains consistant with 4e design in general (which doent use a hell of alot of "chart reosolution") and allows more interesting critical to manifest through character growth

If charted crits for you, good luck. But for my part...been there, done that, know better.

How do you knock Ooze prone or bloody the Ooze? How does someone survive a direct hit with a dragon’s fire breath and not catch on fire or be burnt to a crisp? How does one mark a gargantuan sized creature? How do you have lycanthrope shapechangers when the moon isn’t full? Ok, well that last one is just a pet peeve of mine. The D&D game itself can become hard to believe if you choose to do so. You can make a generic set of critical hit charts that can work for any situation if you follow the same thought pattern as you do when you knock that Ooze prone.

I personally have my own critical hit chart but it only comes into effect if a critical hit causes the target to bleed. It gives a list of effects with suggested flavor, but one can re-flavor to match the situation or creature.

 

[Neuroglyph]

I personally have my own critical hit chart but it only comes into effect if a critical hit causes the target to bleed. It gives a list of effects with suggested flavor, but one can re-flavor to match the situation or creature.

Exactly, flavors can change depending on the type of creature attacking or being attacked. The examples of flavor given were there as an illustration and covered a wide variety of circumstances - but DMs are certainly free to change them.

 

[keterys]

I think critical hits get a lot more exciting once you're getting some serious bonus damage on it - for example I know someone who adds 6d10 damage extra on a crit at 12th. And then repeats that damage again the next round!

But, looking at your initial chart, looks like you put some decent though into it. I'd personally suggest against certain of the status effects as it will potentially get annoying for the players when minions and such hit them and potentially lock down Solos too much (for roughly the same reasons in both directions). I would suggest considering adding ongoing damage as a possible type, as well as push effects.

 

[King Nate]

Mike Mearls' Blog

This is from Mike Mearls WOTC blog where he created a system shock houserule. I used it as a base for creating my critical hit chart. You might get some ideas from it as well.

I agree with Mearls’ quote
“I think adding in a penalty when you are bloodied is a good idea. It’s a flag that something serious has happened, and makes a nod towards injuries you sustain that hurt, but don’t drop you.”

This is why my critical hits still do max damage as normal except in the cases when you take a critical and become bloodied.

 

[wagenejm]

How do you knock Ooze prone or bloody the Ooze?

Actually, my play group handles these things with fun and interesting descriptions. For example: While the game rules say the Ooze is knocked prone, a flavorful description is that the power you used is vigorous enough to cause the Ooze to be splattered (knocked prone) in a manner that it has to take a move action to pull itself back together (stand up).

Bloodying an Ooze would be the same concept. As an Ooze takes more damage, its consistency is affected such that it begins to become more watery. At the bloodied threshold, parts of its body begin to seep away.

We use similar descriptions based on whatever creature types we're working with. Another example: Skeletons can have their bones knocked away (prone) so that they have to reform (stand up) and their bones become fractured (bloodied).

Creativity is half the fun!

 

[wagenejm]

I've recently worked on a system to improve on Critical Hits as my players and I found the current method of just causing Max Damage to be a bit anti-climatic.

I worked on a system to use existing combat conditions to add flavor to a critical hit, in addition to the standard max hp damage.

I'd be interested in any feedback folks may have - Critical Hits for 4e D&D

I have to disagree with your player for saying that crits aren't exciting. If you want to do bonus damage on a crit, use a weapon with the High Crit property. There are also critical bonuses added to magic items that can cause you to easily deal double damage.

There is much more to critical strikes than just max damage.

 

[Neuroglyph]

Mike Mearls' Blog

This is from Mike Mearls WOTC blog where he created a system shock houserule. I used it as a base for creating my critical hit chart. You might get some ideas from it as well.

I agree with Mearls’ quote
“I think adding in a penalty when you are bloodied is a good idea. It’s a flag that something serious has happened, and makes a nod towards injuries you sustain that hurt, but don’t drop you.”

This is why my critical hits still do max damage as normal except in the cases when you take a critical and become bloodied.

I actually like that idea for adding a wound system to becoming bloodied. I might rethink my critical hit chart and just apply it to PCs and NPCs if the become bloodied instead.

Thanks for the suggestion.