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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Improving Two-Weapon Fighting
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<blockquote data-quote="Quartz" data-source="post: 7613867" data-attributes="member: 40552"><p>So far so good.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, it's nearly a full point worse.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you're getting a +3.5 damage bonus so the Duellist's +2 is 1.5 points worse (for a d6 weapon).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Since the greatest difference is with Duellist, let's look at a putative 11th level fighter. The Duellist rolls 3x (1d8 + stat +2) whereas the TWF rolls 3x (1d8 + stat + 1d6) for a difference of 4.5 damage. And then there's the fact that the TWF fighter is getting six attacks, each with the potential for some secondary effect whereas the Duellist gets only three. And if the TWF gets a Bonus Action, is she getting one attack or two?</p><p></p><p>As written in the PHB, TWF is strictly better than Duellist for anyone with a damage stat of 14+ until 11th level anyway. Assume a 16 stat. A first level duellist does 1d8+2+3 (average 9.5); a first level TWF does 2d6 + 2x 3 (average 13). That's a huge difference, BTW. A 5th level Duellist does 2d8 + 2x 3 + 2x 2 (average 19); a 5th level TWF does 3d6 + 3x 3 (average 19.5). An 11th level Duellist does 3d8 + 3x 3 + 3x 2 (average 28.5); an 11th level TWF does 4d6 + 4x 3 (average 26). And how many campaigns get to 11th level?</p><p></p><p>Let me address the other big issue: the use of the Bonus Action. Just as Duellist trades lower damage for greater security (because she can use a shield and get +2 AC), so TWF trades the Bonus Action for increased regular damage. The TWF user <strong>always</strong> get to use her BA; other fighting styles do not.</p><p></p><p>So that's a solid no from me. TWF does not need improvement.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quartz, post: 7613867, member: 40552"] So far so good. No, it's nearly a full point worse. No, you're getting a +3.5 damage bonus so the Duellist's +2 is 1.5 points worse (for a d6 weapon). Since the greatest difference is with Duellist, let's look at a putative 11th level fighter. The Duellist rolls 3x (1d8 + stat +2) whereas the TWF rolls 3x (1d8 + stat + 1d6) for a difference of 4.5 damage. And then there's the fact that the TWF fighter is getting six attacks, each with the potential for some secondary effect whereas the Duellist gets only three. And if the TWF gets a Bonus Action, is she getting one attack or two? As written in the PHB, TWF is strictly better than Duellist for anyone with a damage stat of 14+ until 11th level anyway. Assume a 16 stat. A first level duellist does 1d8+2+3 (average 9.5); a first level TWF does 2d6 + 2x 3 (average 13). That's a huge difference, BTW. A 5th level Duellist does 2d8 + 2x 3 + 2x 2 (average 19); a 5th level TWF does 3d6 + 3x 3 (average 19.5). An 11th level Duellist does 3d8 + 3x 3 + 3x 2 (average 28.5); an 11th level TWF does 4d6 + 4x 3 (average 26). And how many campaigns get to 11th level? Let me address the other big issue: the use of the Bonus Action. Just as Duellist trades lower damage for greater security (because she can use a shield and get +2 AC), so TWF trades the Bonus Action for increased regular damage. The TWF user [B]always[/B] get to use her BA; other fighting styles do not. So that's a solid no from me. TWF does not need improvement. [/QUOTE]
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