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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 6727098" data-attributes="member: 16586">Zak S,You make some compelling points. I fell into some of the same unfortunate rhetorical traps that the guys who created the sort of games I tend to like made back in the day. At the end of the day we're looking at games that are trying to be about different things than D&D is about, but are still fundamentally role playing games. Using words like Story Now, Narrativism, etc. was entirely counterproductive to communicating what we are all trying to do - play games with different goals. I think you couldn't be more wrong about this thing we are doing. We use unfortunate rhetoric at times, but this thing we are doing is absolutely about playing games. Players are after different things and GMs/refs/whatever utilize different techniques, but we are absolutely interested in playing games as games. I guess what I'm trying to say is we are not who you think we are. I view Vampire - The Masquerade* at best as a dysfunctional game. The GM priorities are completely askew and lead to an experience for players where there is no real ground to make decisions and strive for the things their character should want in a way that actually shapes outcomes. I wanted to like Vampire. I totally wanted to play a game about trying to not become a monster. That's not what Vampire is. I'm not really sure if it is or isn't a game. I simply know the play techniques (used as directed) left me feeling like I had no impact on play.This thing I like to do is so fundamentally different from that thing people who play Vampire as directed do I have trouble seeing how anyone can associate the two. I have visceral and violent reaction every time I see anything like The Golden Rule, calls for keeping players in the dark so you can pull off a big reveal, fudging, etc. It's far too pervasive in our hobby for my tastes. I guess this is me taking far too many words to say I like games, and am not really that interested in story or narrative. I just prefer games that utilize slightly different play techniques.</blockquote>

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