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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6727113" data-attributes="member: 42582">My experience with V:tM is less than my experience with AD&amp;D 2nd ed, but my response to the latter (and to the little V:tM that I have played) is the same as yours.For reasons that I don't understand, given that it's been pointed out more than once in previous threads,&nbsp; [MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION] seems not to realise that the Forge (and the games that it gave rise to) is founded in profound hostility to V:tM, AD&amp;D 2nd ed and that predominant late-80s-through-90s style of play. (This hostility saw its climax in the notorious &quot;brain damage&quot; episode.)As to interest in story or narrative, for my own part I am interested in them this way: I want my FRPGing to feel like there are dramatic stakes, and character arcs, that at least tolerably resemble B movies in the genre, or Claremont-style superhero comics. If a FRPG can't fairly reliably produce that sort of experience, I don't really want to GM or play it. I have had the sort of experience I want playing two sorts of games. One is playing RQ, Stormbringer or similar BRP engines in tightly-designed tournament scenarios, in which rich pre-written PC backstories make contact with the pre-written scenario, driven by very skilled GM descriptions and characterisations of NPCs. I'm not a good enough GM in those respects to run such scenarios myself, and the degree of pre-writing required makes them unsuitable, in my view, for campaign play. (Too much work, not enough player input.)The other is running games in a scene-framing style, with GM decision-making around scene-framing driven by formal or informal player cues. (I've often mentioned that the mid-80s Oriental Adventures, with its PCs embedded in a world of families, and honour, and the Celestial Bureaucracy, was what opened my eyes to this.) I've run this sort of game using AD&amp;D and RM, but for the sorts of reasons I've stated in this thread I think there are better mechanics for doing what I want, and those are what I now use.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6727113, member: 42582"] My experience with V:tM is less than my experience with AD&D 2nd ed, but my response to the latter (and to the little V:tM that I have played) is the same as yours. For reasons that I don't understand, given that it's been pointed out more than once in previous threads, [MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION] seems not to realise that the Forge (and the games that it gave rise to) is founded in profound hostility to V:tM, AD&D 2nd ed and that predominant late-80s-through-90s style of play. (This hostility saw its climax in the notorious "brain damage" episode.) As to interest in story or narrative, for my own part I am interested in them this way: I want my FRPGing to feel like there are dramatic stakes, and character arcs, that at least tolerably resemble B movies in the genre, or Claremont-style superhero comics. If a FRPG can't fairly reliably produce that sort of experience, I don't really want to GM or play it. I have had the sort of experience I want playing two sorts of games. One is playing RQ, Stormbringer or similar BRP engines in tightly-designed tournament scenarios, in which rich pre-written PC backstories make contact with the pre-written scenario, driven by very skilled GM descriptions and characterisations of NPCs. I'm not a good enough GM in those respects to run such scenarios myself, and the degree of pre-writing required makes them unsuitable, in my view, for campaign play. (Too much work, not enough player input.) The other is running games in a scene-framing style, with GM decision-making around scene-framing driven by formal or informal player cues. (I've often mentioned that the mid-80s Oriental Adventures, with its PCs embedded in a world of families, and honour, and the Celestial Bureaucracy, was what opened my eyes to this.) I've run this sort of game using AD&D and RM, but for the sorts of reasons I've stated in this thread I think there are better mechanics for doing what I want, and those are what I now use. [/QUOTE]

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