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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 6732434" data-attributes="member: 3192">In D&amp;D the players are capable of gaming the system. Their decisions go directly to it, even if at all points they are unsure what what choices are immediately available. They are always working on suppositions, but they are seeking to discern the code as much as game it.&quot;There's more mountain to the east, so I bet the dungeon expands that way. We just haven't found it. Plus all those stupid bat-like creatures keep coming from that way and they seem to have hundreds of them. Either there's a hidden lair, a passage off this level, or something else I'm not thinking of.&quot; ---- None of that is &quot;talking about the fiction&quot;In a story-focused game, IME all Gary's advice wouldn't be advice for playing a game. I'm asking how others can hold that to be true though. At best, maybe it's suggestions for what kind of narrative we should create today on a blank page. It isn't talking about how to excel or at least not lose at playing the game system. For the large part, the storytelling rules are about finding who gets to tell the story next or how they may tell it.&nbsp; There's been a lot of interesting design in how that can done, but the &quot;fiction&quot; and the system are separate. They aren't considered the same thing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 6732434, member: 3192"] In D&D the players are capable of gaming the system. Their decisions go directly to it, even if at all points they are unsure what what choices are immediately available. They are always working on suppositions, but they are seeking to discern the code as much as game it. "There's more mountain to the east, so I bet the dungeon expands that way. We just haven't found it. Plus all those stupid bat-like creatures keep coming from that way and they seem to have hundreds of them. Either there's a hidden lair, a passage off this level, or something else I'm not thinking of." ---- None of that is "talking about the fiction" In a story-focused game, IME all Gary's advice wouldn't be advice for playing a game. I'm asking how others can hold that to be true though. At best, maybe it's suggestions for what kind of narrative we should create today on a blank page. It isn't talking about how to excel or at least not lose at playing the game system. For the large part, the storytelling rules are about finding who gets to tell the story next or how they may tell it. There's been a lot of interesting design in how that can done, but the "fiction" and the system are separate. They aren't considered the same thing. [/QUOTE]

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