Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 6733661" data-attributes="member: 3192">That's great news. That's not what I was told repeatedly from people on that site 10 years ago. You know, that's really funny. The reason I first heard about the Forge was as part of a story about some crazy guy online who was claiming all games were actually just "scenery shifting" (and wasn't being ironic). You've never heard that about them before?Then let's not talk about it. I'm fine with that.I said in my Tic-Tac-Toe example earlier in this thread: a game is only a game if we treat it as such. Gaming is its own unique culture. Storytelling is too. Both are great, but their ideas largely have no crossover. I'm not willingly going to let one be painted over by another no matter how self certain a group of true believers may be. To explain the quote: Games are pattern designs. They actually exist as such, whether it be in the world outside or minds or the piece of reality which is called fantasy which is our minds. These patterns can be puzzled out as puzzles. They can also be played as games by deciphering the pattern to achieve objectives within them. This means a garden maze is a game when treated so. As is a forest. So, my point was, the origins of games do not come from people. They are games when treated as part of game culture.DMs drew their own mazes prior to play. This is required by the rules since 1974. Just see my post to MaxPerson upthread. This was mandatory, just like any wargame requires terrain.No one needed to be told that. It's the basic act of playing game that anyone in wargames knew instictively. Unless you also believe playing Axis & Allies is "collaborative storytelling" with the game "author". (Hint: It's a dynamic pattern that enables players to decipher it so they might achieve objectives more capably within it.)Games can't be played without game rules. The campaign map (maze) - a portion of which is a module - must be drawn by the DM before anyone could even think to play it (i.e. engage in solving to one or more objectives).  Screens hide this maze players are mapping on the other side. And as I keep saying, these mazes are the actual game design.Of course they aren't. They change the entire length of the campaign. Even if you clear the entire dungeon level, time passes and wandering monsters will come by and make lairs. Even if you collapse the entire level you still have a level of dirt and stone for players to dig through. It never goes away.  The vast majority of published "modules" today aren't. They are single sequence stories for players to follow. There is no game element to them. And DMs were told to restock the DMs map per the rules of the game. Every DM needs to use rules for this, a pattern of restocking, to allow players to undestand what it's happening and why. And these rolls are not improvisation when following pre-existing rules. And "event based" modules are railroads, or presumed rails at best. Yeah, the process needs to be predetermined by the DM. I mean, they had to stock the game board the first time with monsters and treasure, right? That wasn't to be arbitrary.Yes. You're right here. That players needed different or redesigned game scenarios they knew too well, so a different pattern could be played, is true. This occurs between campaigns clearly.Millions of game players who play games other than RPGs. RPGs have been a confused enterprise since Gary poorly explained what he was doing and then 2e happened. Back in '79-'80 D&D became known to people other than in the hobby, people whose opinions mattered. Postmodernism was hitting common culture at the as same time holding many of the same prejudiced certainties folks like Edwards and the Forge have today. It was considered, "If D&D is a 'role playing' game, how aren't all games role playing games? All games define a social role, 'chess player' for instance, and allow players to improve in those roles, right?" It's hard to dispute that. Wargames are about roleplaying generals under the definition of roleplaying from the 70s. So D&D is a wargame (and is) albeit a cooperative one which offers three different roles separate from one another. This made it something new. It later slowly shifted in AD&D to all roles being more fully supported. Something where players roleplayed in different directions and needed to learn to work together to achieve different goals.All I am saying is UK1 is a flawed design which doesn't work with the game.D&D uses calendar maps. That's what all those early modules publications functionally (or dysfunctionally) were. When you extend off the map we are leaving the game. 1000s years in the future is like thinking we can reset the Chess board based on calculations of what it will look like 100,000s of moves in the future. Time to start a new campaign.That's true too. The game is dynamic, not situational. If you sit in the dungeon as a player, you are spending the primary resource of the game: time. Sooner or later you will see events occurring due to the pregenerated timeline made before every session, the scenario. Obviously I strongly disagree. I'm guessing you're not interested why D&D is designed as it is. So I'm thinking not much is to be gained by continually responding. If you have further questions, I will answer them. Otherwise, have a good weekend.</blockquote>

Verification