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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6733818" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'll give two examples: one is from the 4e DMG, the other I'm making up myself.(1) The PCs are negotiating with an NPC who is their social superior ("the Duke"). The GM has decided that one feature of the Duke  is that he doesn't respond well to threats from his social inferiors. Hence, any attempt to use the Intimidate skill in the course of the scene in which this negotiation is resolved will count against the PCs (and thereby the players - within the technical apparatus of 4e, it is an automatic failure in the skill challenge). The GM is also ready to tell the player that if they make a successful Insight check to try and ascertain the personality and motivations of the Duke, one of the things they can work out is that he doesn't respond well to threats.(2) The PCs come to a wall. Their detection spells tell them that, behind the wall, is the item they are searching for. In the GM's notes is a record that the wall contains a magical portal that will open only if the codeword is spoken. The PCs (and hence the players) can only learn the codeword by getting a document from somewhere else in the building. So the players cannot succeed in their current confrontation with the wall until they go through a whole lot of other episodes and confrontations to find the secret code.(1) is an example where the players can fail in their action declaration for a reason they don't know - namely, the GM's decision about the personality of the Duke. But within the course of the resolution to which the Duke's personality matters they can learn the relevant information. For me, that is about as far as I want to go with "secret backstory".(2) is an example where the players can fail in their action declaration (of various attempts to break through the wall, etc) for a reason they don't know - namely, that a special code word is needed to open the magical portal. Even if, during the course of their attempt to have their PCs get through the door, the players learn that a codeword is needed they can't learn the codeword without heading off into some other set of episodes and encounters. That is the sort of "secret backstory" that I personally don't like in a game.I get the sense that in your GMing you have stuff that is more like (2) as well as stuff that is more like (1). Certainly, I think the typical sandbox probably has stuff like (2). And [MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION]'s whole theory of D&D seems to include that it must have stuff like (2) or it doesn't count as an RPG.</blockquote>

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