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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 6734057" data-attributes="member: 23751">At this point we understand what your personal definition of game is.  However, you have yet to show evidence that your definition is the only or true definition of game and not just your personal belief.  We on the other hand have shown much evidence that there are different ways to define what a game is and some of them don't match up to your view and have existed for far longer than RPGs have.When I play D&D, I make the decisions for my character based on who my PC is, not necessarily what the best tactical move is.  I also usually don't make my move based on what I think the other people in the fight are going to do next or as a result.  There are too many variables in D&D to both with that most of the time.But what do they predict?  Hell of the players can ever figure that out.  It's not like they know which tables I'm using or if I'm even using a table at all.  A player trying to figure that out is wasting his time, which is probably why in over 30 years of playing, I've never seen it tried.That's one type of game, yes.I've used hundreds of fields over the decades and statted out 0 of them.  Why?  Because they don't have or need stats.  It's a field.  You walk through it.   You can use it as a wargame, or you can use it for other purposes.  So what.  Being able to play it one way doesn't make it that way for every purpose.  You can also use B2 to create a mutual story and it would still be a game.This is simply not true as a universal fact.  YOU use D&D like that, but I do not.  We both are playing the game of D&D.  D&D is flexible in that as a game, it can be played in multiple different ways.  Your way is not better or worse, nor is it the only way to be playing D&D as a game. Spells were never balanced.  They were just less imbalanced in 1e and 2e.  And yes, while there were rules for creatures and encounters, they were not used in all situations.  The DM had the leeway to alter the rules as he saw fit and use or not use them at his desire.  It isn't decision making, it's pattern recognition. Do we as players see those forces building up on our flank? Can we determine a reliable number of troops and what type in order to cross the Atlantic and gain a foothold in Europe? That stuff is the code breaking of play.D&D, despite its roots, has never been a wargame.  You can use it that way, but that has never been its sole role or function.  Saying D&D is a wargame is like saying people are monkeys.  Roots =/= current function.D&D has worked without maps and gameboards since it came out.  Theater of the Mind is a real way to play the game.I haven't bothered to track food, water and general expenses in years.  As for your swamp rat example, that's also wrong.  Just because there isn't a swamp on the map that is large enough to be mapped, doesn't mean that there aren't small bog areas not on the map, but close by that contain swamp rats.  I improvise places like that all the time.I don't need to generate lower scale maps, and those few times when I do, I usually just pick terrain features.  I don't use preset random tables.I don't have the whole design generated out.  I usually just create an outline and fill in the details as I go.  We're still playing a game.I'm not a referee.  I'm a DM, and DMs can alter, add or remove rules as they see fit.  There is not a single rule that I "must" follow.  Nor am I prevented from altering, adding or removing rules after game play begins.  The rules say I can play that way.Yes there is.  It may not be your style of game, but your style of game is not the only type of game in the world.  What's more check DCs are not arbitrary at all.  While they happen in the moment, they are based on reason, which prevents them from being arbitrary.I use checks all the time and have never once use them arbitrarily.  I consider about how hard the check is based on all the circumstances involved, then based on the check rules I will assign a non-arbitrary well-reasoned number to it.  Then you have to roll equal to or higher than that number.</blockquote>

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