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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9734940" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Well, at least for my part, I do (and always will) draw the line at liches, people who willingly became vampires, and illithids, that sort of thing.At least in 4e, illithids can essentially "go vegan" and eat the products of a form of moss. That they choose to kill people instead indicates they are evil. I am willing to accept an illithid trying to change; I am not willing to accept an illithid that I am supposed to instantaneously pity without a demonstration on their part that they are, in fact, trying to be different or have actually behaved differently.Vampires, or at least vampire spawn, can be created forcibly (that's....pretty much the story behind Astarion in BG3, he's a spawn-slave, created by someone who manipulated him into "accepting willingly" by forcing him into a horrible situation; he barely had the ability to refuse, being near-dead when the "offer" was made.) Curing them is difficult, depending on what story/continuity you're looking at, but in general it's a difficult thing to escape. I can see how that might foster pity. But the vast majority of true vampires get there by embracing their horror. BG3 actually does a really good job of showing this through some of the books you read in Cazador's palace.Liches deserve special dislike, because there it's 100% purely intentional, it requires numerous evil actions, and then specifically it requires the knowing murder of a completely innocent person. You literally can't become a lich without doing horrible, almost literally unspeakable evil. There are certain lines that, if you cross them, there really might not ever be a way to "go back". I know that sort of thing is out of vogue today, the idea that there can be truly eternal consequences for a small number of specific actions, but when it comes to liches specifically I think such a line applies.</blockquote>

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