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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 9735445" data-attributes="member: 7025508">They obviously have societey and seem to have free will too, although they are probably more suspectible to manipulation by "dark powers" than most people. BUt it is not like humans or even maiar are immune to that. Sorry this just does not work, they are people with names, a society, culture. They come across as people, and mass extermination of them would feel wrong.And it is not like Tolkien was unaware of this issue, as he struggled with as is evident in his letters, and he was never fully happy with the fate and nature of the orcs.People usually think they're side of the good. Even when doing horrible things with great confidence. Especially then, in fact. What is the issue with alignment and other such "objective" declarations of morality, that we end up in situations where horrible things are "objectively good" according to the system.And we can still root for them. What I find weird and uncomfortable, is that a lot of people seem to not want moral nuance or complexity. They want to play characters who are objectively good, but still do things that are from any even-semi realistic moral perspective rather questionable. How about just play characters that are not morally perfect? Like not outright villains, but just people who feel anger and fear, experience realistic emotions and prejudices, that do not always do the right things? I have far less issue with a person who plays a vengeful barbarian that slaughters fleeing enemies in anger, with the player understanding that this is rather messed up thing to do, than a player who does the same but insists that their lawful good paladin was perfectly justified in doing that.Well, that seems like a complicated moral question. Thus  excellent material for RPGs.</blockquote>

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