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In 4e combat, is an ooze as tall as a human?
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<blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 4546949" data-attributes="member: 994"><p>Disclaimer: I'm <strong>Nail</strong>'s DM. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>This was essentially my thinking exactly. In prepping for this battle I had taken the time to look at the Size table on MM pg 6 because I thought maybe one or more of the PCs might try climbing the cliff face in the room to get away from the ochre jellies and wanted to have some idea about how high a PC might have to climb before they were effectively safe from their attacks.</p><p></p><p>As a Large (long) creature the ochre jellies have a Reach of 1 space. Given the fluff text under the Ochre Jelly entry about "cannot climb steps or similar surfaces, and often become trapped in low-lying chambers" I imagined them being low to the ground. Sure, they attack nearby spaces with Slams from pseudopods they form temporarily, but they cannot hold those shapes with any strength to actually climb stairs and whatnot.</p><p></p><p>Putting that together with Nail (that's also the PC's name) the Human Fighter being on average 6 ft tall and the Dragonborn Warlock (avg height 6.5 ft) being the closest PCs to the ooze and also both being targeted by the Shadowhunter Bats, when Nail's Fighter-Stickiness stopped their Flyby Attacks (they were targeting other PCs, not Nail) I mentally had them 3 sqs off the ground attacking these two Medium-size PCs (2 sqs tall) with the Ochre Jelly occupying the ground nearby. With the Ochre Jelly only having a 1 sq Reach, I didn't feel it could feasibly attack the Shadowhunter Bats, they were effectively 1 sq too far above it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For the chair, not at all, see above. As to the first part, I think <strong>Nail</strong>, the player, had great tactics, but there was no reason Nail the PC, a level 1 Fighter with a low Intelligence who had never been Underground before or fought creatures of this kind, would believe that pushing it toward the Shadowhunter Bat and then moving himself away would cause the Ochre Jelly to switch targets.</p><p></p><p>Now, his PC has a high Wisdom and though he's not Trained in Dungeoneering I would allow such in game knowledge to be tactically useful with a successful Monster Knowledge check on his part or one of the other party members, likely a DC 15 since this type of information probably falls under the basic information you'd get from the Ooze type/keywords.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately we had a couple player absences and two of the PCs who are trained in Dungeoneering were being cross-covered by players not too familiar with them; and this was only our 3rd session of 4e and no one is really in the habit of making Monster Knowledge checks (though doing so doesn't cost any actions!). I hope that will change with some reminding on my part going forward since it's a great & straightforward way to get some useful information to the players that rewards those PCs with Trained Knowledge skills and/or high Intelligence or Wisdom, and that's A Good Thing (tm)! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>BTW, kudos to <strong>Nail</strong> for making his point in the midst of combat ("I cry foul!" <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />) quickly, letting me explain my reasoning, and us moving on with my decision all within I think less than 30 seconds. I certainly try to keep things RAW and clarify when I'm going with what I feel is RAI, but I'm glad this type of discussion didn't derail the flow of combat for everyone. Importantly, this was early in the combat and no PCs were really in a life-or-death situation (that was the <em>next</em> combat encounter! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious :]" data-shortname=":]" /> )</p><p></p><p>Thanks</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DrSpunj, post: 4546949, member: 994"] Disclaimer: I'm [b]Nail[/b]'s DM. ;) This was essentially my thinking exactly. In prepping for this battle I had taken the time to look at the Size table on MM pg 6 because I thought maybe one or more of the PCs might try climbing the cliff face in the room to get away from the ochre jellies and wanted to have some idea about how high a PC might have to climb before they were effectively safe from their attacks. As a Large (long) creature the ochre jellies have a Reach of 1 space. Given the fluff text under the Ochre Jelly entry about "cannot climb steps or similar surfaces, and often become trapped in low-lying chambers" I imagined them being low to the ground. Sure, they attack nearby spaces with Slams from pseudopods they form temporarily, but they cannot hold those shapes with any strength to actually climb stairs and whatnot. Putting that together with Nail (that's also the PC's name) the Human Fighter being on average 6 ft tall and the Dragonborn Warlock (avg height 6.5 ft) being the closest PCs to the ooze and also both being targeted by the Shadowhunter Bats, when Nail's Fighter-Stickiness stopped their Flyby Attacks (they were targeting other PCs, not Nail) I mentally had them 3 sqs off the ground attacking these two Medium-size PCs (2 sqs tall) with the Ochre Jelly occupying the ground nearby. With the Ochre Jelly only having a 1 sq Reach, I didn't feel it could feasibly attack the Shadowhunter Bats, they were effectively 1 sq too far above it. For the chair, not at all, see above. As to the first part, I think [b]Nail[/b], the player, had great tactics, but there was no reason Nail the PC, a level 1 Fighter with a low Intelligence who had never been Underground before or fought creatures of this kind, would believe that pushing it toward the Shadowhunter Bat and then moving himself away would cause the Ochre Jelly to switch targets. Now, his PC has a high Wisdom and though he's not Trained in Dungeoneering I would allow such in game knowledge to be tactically useful with a successful Monster Knowledge check on his part or one of the other party members, likely a DC 15 since this type of information probably falls under the basic information you'd get from the Ooze type/keywords. Unfortunately we had a couple player absences and two of the PCs who are trained in Dungeoneering were being cross-covered by players not too familiar with them; and this was only our 3rd session of 4e and no one is really in the habit of making Monster Knowledge checks (though doing so doesn't cost any actions!). I hope that will change with some reminding on my part going forward since it's a great & straightforward way to get some useful information to the players that rewards those PCs with Trained Knowledge skills and/or high Intelligence or Wisdom, and that's A Good Thing (tm)! :D BTW, kudos to [b]Nail[/b] for making his point in the midst of combat ("I cry foul!" :lol:) quickly, letting me explain my reasoning, and us moving on with my decision all within I think less than 30 seconds. I certainly try to keep things RAW and clarify when I'm going with what I feel is RAI, but I'm glad this type of discussion didn't derail the flow of combat for everyone. Importantly, this was early in the combat and no PCs were really in a life-or-death situation (that was the [i]next[/i] combat encounter! :] ) Thanks [/QUOTE]
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In 4e combat, is an ooze as tall as a human?
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