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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4324275" data-attributes="member: 18280">Are you referring to the GSL here?&nbsp; Because, from where I sit, WotC has left the Open Gaming movement and taken its ball with it insofar as it is able.&nbsp; This is not because 4e is not published under an OGL, but because the GSL seeks specifically to limit publishers from using the OGL in specific ways if they also use the GSL.&nbsp; And 4e seems to be built, again from where I am sitting, on te community's outputs.OTOH, we have products like Paizo's Pathfinder which is specifically ope to all.&nbsp; Not only is Pathfinder &quot;a product that Paizo will sell for its own direct economic benefit&quot; (and what product, including 3e and 4e, is not? - you create a false dichotomy by any other suggestion), but Pathfinder Alpha at least was entirely OGC, meaning that it can be used for the direct economic and gaming benefit of anyone.&nbsp; Far from &quot;The publisher picks what gets pursued, what gets used, and what the goal is. The publisher is in charge.&quot;, Paizo has left everyone in charge.&nbsp; If you don't like Pathfinder, you can use what you like, discard what you do not like, and then publish it.&nbsp; The users decide what they like best....exactly what you describe as &quot;a true open environment&quot;.WotC left the Open Gaming movement with 4e, and is reaping the results of that.&nbsp; Pretending that, therefore, those who continue to provide OGC materials are somehow &quot;hijacking&quot; the movement is misguided at best.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4324275, member: 18280"] Are you referring to the GSL here? Because, from where I sit, WotC has left the Open Gaming movement and taken its ball with it insofar as it is able. This is not because 4e is not published under an OGL, but because the GSL seeks specifically to limit publishers from using the OGL in specific ways if they also use the GSL. And 4e seems to be built, again from where I am sitting, on te community's outputs. OTOH, we have products like Paizo's Pathfinder which is specifically ope to all. Not only is Pathfinder "a product that Paizo will sell for its own direct economic benefit" (and what product, including 3e and 4e, is not? - you create a false dichotomy by any other suggestion), but Pathfinder Alpha at least was entirely OGC, meaning that it can be used for the direct economic and gaming benefit of anyone. Far from "The publisher picks what gets pursued, what gets used, and what the goal is. The publisher is in charge.", Paizo has left everyone in charge. If you don't like Pathfinder, you can use what you like, discard what you do not like, and then publish it. The users decide what they like best....exactly what you describe as "a true open environment". WotC left the Open Gaming movement with 4e, and is reaping the results of that. Pretending that, therefore, those who continue to provide OGC materials are somehow "hijacking" the movement is misguided at best. RC [/QUOTE]

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