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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 5793728" data-attributes="member: 32536">All I can say is that it comes across as rude and dismissive to me. And being rude and dismissive just gets worse the more people you address it to, not better.There is a very broad scale between the impossible ideal of perfect and the opposite extreme of "so bad nobody will ever like it". Somewhere within that range is D&D, and in my book it is a little too far on the bad end of the scale. Not so far that it is unplayable or even unfun, but far enough that it is meaningful to complain about. Certainly far enough that it costs the game sales due to disillusioned players.Every edition sheds players as the length of the edition wears on. Ultimately, having fun with the game for a while doesn't mean you'll be able to ignore its flaws and enjoy the game indefinitely.Sure, everything has problems. Even Chess and Go do. Of course, the degree of the problems those games suffer is nothing close to the severity of some of D&D's classic problems.Of course there is no game that is beyond improvement. Improvement is an eternal process. I don't see how that logic justifies an attitude which condemns those that complain about problems and ignores the need for improvement. And that is basically what you are doing.D&D has problems. It needs improvement. You admit so yourself right here. So why is the game itself beyond reproach, and why must we instead only complain about players? Even when some of the problems I'm referring to are widely recognized among players to the extent they've triggered a massive split in the fanbase? The problems with 3E that attracted fans to 4E were quite bad, and are not due to problem players. The problems that caused many Pathfinder fans to be repulsed by 4E are quite bad, and are not caused by problem players. Is it so wrong to ask for a game that addresses both sets of problems?Honestly, this is not an issue of conflicting gamestyles, if you ask me. I honestly believe that 4E-loyalists and 4E-detractors can play together in the same game and enjoy themselves, because they are all people who love D&D for what it is. I believe that a 5E can exist which can address those genuine, real concerns on both sides. All it takes is accepting the idea that, when both camps complain about the other game, they are actually correct in their complaints, and that it is indeed possible to address those complaints.Also, as a side note, I've said that I've played games that are good enough to not merit significant complaint. I never said I've played tabletop RPGs that are of that quality. Because I really have never seen the latter, even though I have seen the former.</blockquote>

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