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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 8364127" data-attributes="member: 3887">I think you were quoting me. My point was survival is only one kind of challenge. Others exists.Even accepting that survival is the primary challenge of old-school D&amp;D, there's evidence that waned over time when you look at all the lethality-mitigation rules that got adopted both informally (max HP at 1st level, &quot;we start at level 3&quot;) and formally ('death's door&quot; rules, higher stat generation methods, various spells to help PC survive early levels) as you move from Original to AD&amp;D 2e.Then there's the nature that challenge itself. A lot of low level survival comes down to pure dumb luck in OD&amp;D/AD&amp;D. Not the 'smart play' that got talked up in OSR rhetoric. What can a group do about poisonous monsters until somebody makes 7th level as cleric? Which I'm about to do in our Labyrinth Lord campaign, BTW.In some ways, later editions allow for smarter play because lower-level PCs are assumed to have access to more of the tools they need. So it becomes a logistical problem to solve, not just a matter of rolling high on a d20...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 8364127, member: 3887"] I think you were quoting me. My point was survival is only one kind of challenge. Others exists. Even accepting that survival is the primary challenge of old-school D&D, there's evidence that waned over time when you look at all the lethality-mitigation rules that got adopted both informally (max HP at 1st level, "we start at level 3") and formally ('death's door" rules, higher stat generation methods, various spells to help PC survive early levels) as you move from Original to AD&D 2e. Then there's the nature that challenge itself. A lot of low level survival comes down to pure dumb luck in OD&D/AD&D. Not the 'smart play' that got talked up in OSR rhetoric. What can a group do about poisonous monsters until somebody makes 7th level as cleric? Which I'm about to do in our Labyrinth Lord campaign, BTW. In some ways, later editions allow for smarter play because lower-level PCs are assumed to have access to more of the tools they need. So it becomes a logistical problem to solve, not just a matter of rolling high on a d20... [/QUOTE]

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