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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 8364737" data-attributes="member: 15700">When I talk about out of the box thinking, I'm talking about player skill in the way we often think about it as.  I.e., compared to character skill.  When editions started having skills and powers for everything, players started looking at character sheets to see if they could do something before attempting it.  Compared to older editions, where players narrated what they wanted to do because there were no mechanics that covered that.  Maybe the DM asked for an ability check, but for the most part you just role-played it out.  That's what player skill means.I don't think there's any denying that.  It's human nature.  And we see it in conversations all the time; players saying they won't attempt to disarm the trap or bribe the guard because they don't have the highest modifier in picking locks or persuasion skills.When I see people playing OD&D/B/X or 1e, I see a lot more of creative thinking in regards to using the environment to gain an advantage, and in modern games, I see a lot more reliance on defined powers and abilities on the character sheet.  Also, back then, there was no assumption that encounters needed to be balanced.  You had no idea if that next encounter was going to be a TPK so you acted more cautiously and took time to think of different solutions.  Contrast that to modern design, and there seems to be an assumption that every encounter should be beatable, which leads to players just going right into battle straight away.This has nothing to do with nostalgia or treasured memories, and quite frankly is just a lazy way to dismiss arguments you don't want to agree with.  Look at how each is played right now.  I play with kids frequently, and you can see the differences in new players.  Give them a very rules lite system and they imagine and narrate what they want to do.  Give them a skills system and they start looking at skills before they decide what they are going to do.  This isn't rocket science, this is basic human behavior.  When playing games, we tend to follow the rules as we are learning them, regardless of the game.  the way the game is designed lends to certain playstyles, regardless if it was by Joe Schmo in 1980 or in 2020.  Nothing to do with nostalgia.Note: I'm not saying one preference or style is better than the other, only pointing out the differences</blockquote>

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