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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="bert1000" data-source="post: 7555239" data-attributes="member: 29013"><p>I don't think you are playing 4e in good faith here. I think your original point was that you prefer simulationist rules because it 's easier for you to understand what's possible and not possible from the ruleset. Fair enough. </p><p></p><p>However, 4e rules help create play that emulates genre fiction. Period. They are not designed for you to intuit likelihood of dying from toe stubbing, and of course using them that way is futile.</p><p></p><p>There is no such thing as a "minion" outside the context of fighting heroic characters and monsters in encounters. The rules don't try to simulate accidentally hitting your head on a mine ceiling or stubbing your toe. When the miner is going about his daily business, he just is, governed by the abstract "rules" of the setting norms. Do miners survive toe stubbing in this universe, then yes they do.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean you can't have any clue about how the world works or work up cool plans. In this world, could you expect a group of miners to take on drow and be anything more than redshirts? You could ask the DM about this from your character's perspective. The DM should make the call based on the parameters of the fictional universe. DM: "The miners might help if in enough numbers but you know the drow are powerful and would probably cut them down easily. You might be leading them to their deaths." [make them minions] Or not, maybe they can help substantially as the drow of this world aren't that strong. Then the DM shouldn't make them minions. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is no other context. Minion status is just the underlying mechanic to emulate outclassed foes that get mowed down easily by superior opposition in tactical combat encounters. It means nothing else and shouldn't be used for anything else. </p><p></p><p>If you approach the game under it's own umbrella it works much smoother.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bert1000, post: 7555239, member: 29013"] I don't think you are playing 4e in good faith here. I think your original point was that you prefer simulationist rules because it 's easier for you to understand what's possible and not possible from the ruleset. Fair enough. However, 4e rules help create play that emulates genre fiction. Period. They are not designed for you to intuit likelihood of dying from toe stubbing, and of course using them that way is futile. There is no such thing as a "minion" outside the context of fighting heroic characters and monsters in encounters. The rules don't try to simulate accidentally hitting your head on a mine ceiling or stubbing your toe. When the miner is going about his daily business, he just is, governed by the abstract "rules" of the setting norms. Do miners survive toe stubbing in this universe, then yes they do. This doesn't mean you can't have any clue about how the world works or work up cool plans. In this world, could you expect a group of miners to take on drow and be anything more than redshirts? You could ask the DM about this from your character's perspective. The DM should make the call based on the parameters of the fictional universe. DM: "The miners might help if in enough numbers but you know the drow are powerful and would probably cut them down easily. You might be leading them to their deaths." [make them minions] Or not, maybe they can help substantially as the drow of this world aren't that strong. Then the DM shouldn't make them minions. There is no other context. Minion status is just the underlying mechanic to emulate outclassed foes that get mowed down easily by superior opposition in tactical combat encounters. It means nothing else and shouldn't be used for anything else. If you approach the game under it's own umbrella it works much smoother. [/QUOTE]
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