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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7603665" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>So, my 96 hit point 11th level 1e Ranger can stand around and let 20 longbow arrows pierce his body and what? He simply doesn't die from having all those arrow shafts impaling him? What sort of realistic is that? This is clearly balderdash. 6 points of damage to a level 1 1e fighter means "skewered through by a clothyard shaft and bleeding out" whereas for Cargorn (the level 11 ranger) it means basically nothing. This is simply a fact of the mechanics of the game, you can't paper over it.</p><p></p><p>This is why Gygax described hit points as he did, as a way to constructing some sort of basis for the 'plot armor' they represent in terms of play in a narrative way that isn't nonsensical.</p><p></p><p>I would also like to disabuse you of your notions about 4e...</p><p></p><p>There is nothing in the rules which states that a creature's HP total changes. While it may be that it is fairly easy to make different versions of creatures with different levels and thus numbers of hit points, this is simply different versions of creatures. If the GM decides to use this to depict THE SAME creature at different times, then that might approach what you're talking about, in a narrative sense, but it is still not so mechanically.</p><p></p><p>And yes, the mechanics of the game are ONLY intended, explicitly, to reflect what happens in play, not to dictate how the world works in a narrative sense. However, this is also clearly true in at least some ways (see above in this post) in every edition of D&D. Nor does 4e try to entirely abandon, or intend to entirely abandon, the link between mechanical outcomes and narrative. It only means to eschew the concept that the mechanical representation of the creatures in the game is literal. This is actually quite in keeping with wargaming, in which mechanics and statistics are only meant to represent how things work within the scenario being played, and not to represent the actual world.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7603665, member: 82106"] So, my 96 hit point 11th level 1e Ranger can stand around and let 20 longbow arrows pierce his body and what? He simply doesn't die from having all those arrow shafts impaling him? What sort of realistic is that? This is clearly balderdash. 6 points of damage to a level 1 1e fighter means "skewered through by a clothyard shaft and bleeding out" whereas for Cargorn (the level 11 ranger) it means basically nothing. This is simply a fact of the mechanics of the game, you can't paper over it. This is why Gygax described hit points as he did, as a way to constructing some sort of basis for the 'plot armor' they represent in terms of play in a narrative way that isn't nonsensical. I would also like to disabuse you of your notions about 4e... There is nothing in the rules which states that a creature's HP total changes. While it may be that it is fairly easy to make different versions of creatures with different levels and thus numbers of hit points, this is simply different versions of creatures. If the GM decides to use this to depict THE SAME creature at different times, then that might approach what you're talking about, in a narrative sense, but it is still not so mechanically. And yes, the mechanics of the game are ONLY intended, explicitly, to reflect what happens in play, not to dictate how the world works in a narrative sense. However, this is also clearly true in at least some ways (see above in this post) in every edition of D&D. Nor does 4e try to entirely abandon, or intend to entirely abandon, the link between mechanical outcomes and narrative. It only means to eschew the concept that the mechanical representation of the creatures in the game is literal. This is actually quite in keeping with wargaming, in which mechanics and statistics are only meant to represent how things work within the scenario being played, and not to represent the actual world. [/QUOTE]
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