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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7604363" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>If we take as a given that HP objectively measure the ability of a creature to withstand a violent impact without falling, the way HP were <em>actually</em> used at many tables throughout every earlier edition, then it means any minion has absolutely zero tolerance for injury. It means a level 11 ogre minion has a much lower tolerance for injury than a level 1 non-minion goblin. If you objectively test their ability to survive a minor nuisance - have a level 1 fighter throw a dagger at each - then the ogre will die from the first hit, every time, while the goblin survives multiple hits.</p><p></p><p>That's setting aside the nonsense about using different stat blocks to represent the same creature, based on party level, which so many 4E-defenders endorse. At least the designers don't come right out and suggest that technique, in the book. They probably realized how idiotic it would sound.</p><p>It's not complicated at all. An arrow imparting 8 units of kinetic energy impacts the breastplate of a warrior. The warrior, being an inexperienced novice with a low tolerance for pain, falls unconscious from the impact. A similar arrow, with identical kinetic energy, impacts the breastplate of a more-experienced warrior. That warrior is not significantly impeded by the impact.</p><p></p><p>This is an RPG board, where we're supposed to discuss RPGs. If we're going to judge a game, then it needs to be on a basis of how it performs as an RPG; not on how it plays as a wargame.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7604363, member: 6775031"] If we take as a given that HP objectively measure the ability of a creature to withstand a violent impact without falling, the way HP were [I]actually[/I] used at many tables throughout every earlier edition, then it means any minion has absolutely zero tolerance for injury. It means a level 11 ogre minion has a much lower tolerance for injury than a level 1 non-minion goblin. If you objectively test their ability to survive a minor nuisance - have a level 1 fighter throw a dagger at each - then the ogre will die from the first hit, every time, while the goblin survives multiple hits. That's setting aside the nonsense about using different stat blocks to represent the same creature, based on party level, which so many 4E-defenders endorse. At least the designers don't come right out and suggest that technique, in the book. They probably realized how idiotic it would sound. It's not complicated at all. An arrow imparting 8 units of kinetic energy impacts the breastplate of a warrior. The warrior, being an inexperienced novice with a low tolerance for pain, falls unconscious from the impact. A similar arrow, with identical kinetic energy, impacts the breastplate of a more-experienced warrior. That warrior is not significantly impeded by the impact. This is an RPG board, where we're supposed to discuss RPGs. If we're going to judge a game, then it needs to be on a basis of how it performs as an RPG; not on how it plays as a wargame. [/QUOTE]
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