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D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7604930" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Actually, this is nonsense. In my old 2e campaign I had a setup where the party would almost immediately run into a Hill Giant. How many hit points did this Hill Giant have? 9! Perfectly legal Hill Giant right out of the MM. It was pretty amusing, because here's this monstrous and terrifying creature, but on average a fighter with a bastard sword (2-16 damage vs large IIRC) will kill it in 1-2 blows, tops. Now, the giant was still DANGEROUS, but exactly where is the consistency of fiction? There are Hobgoblins with 9 hit points, also perfectly legal. Now, they do a BIT less damage than even this gimpy Hill Giant, but they're still fairly dangerous (admittedly, being an 8HD creature gives the giant a bit of an edge).</p><p></p><p>Now, in 4e, a 16th level minion STILL has level 16 defenses. The goblin is level 1. Truth is, the 16th level minion ogre would still probably defeat several level 1 goblins. I'd note that an AD&D Ogre might well have as few as 5 hit points, basically not much different from the 16th level minion. </p><p></p><p>I just don't see these games as being very far apart at all. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, so, first of all, a level 16 PC's arrow is sure to insta-gank even a non-minion level 1 goblin, so representing it as a minion is simply a convenience in that sense. Secondly, I would probably make it a higher level minion, and then it would represent a strong, but still trivially weaker, goblin (say a level 16 minion). Either way it will die from one arrow. There could be a few corner cases between the minion and the non-minion where the non-minion is 'more durable' but to a fairly trivial degree.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that, if you look at it objectively, earlier editions DID, and Gygax agrees with me!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7604930, member: 82106"] Actually, this is nonsense. In my old 2e campaign I had a setup where the party would almost immediately run into a Hill Giant. How many hit points did this Hill Giant have? 9! Perfectly legal Hill Giant right out of the MM. It was pretty amusing, because here's this monstrous and terrifying creature, but on average a fighter with a bastard sword (2-16 damage vs large IIRC) will kill it in 1-2 blows, tops. Now, the giant was still DANGEROUS, but exactly where is the consistency of fiction? There are Hobgoblins with 9 hit points, also perfectly legal. Now, they do a BIT less damage than even this gimpy Hill Giant, but they're still fairly dangerous (admittedly, being an 8HD creature gives the giant a bit of an edge). Now, in 4e, a 16th level minion STILL has level 16 defenses. The goblin is level 1. Truth is, the 16th level minion ogre would still probably defeat several level 1 goblins. I'd note that an AD&D Ogre might well have as few as 5 hit points, basically not much different from the 16th level minion. I just don't see these games as being very far apart at all. OK, so, first of all, a level 16 PC's arrow is sure to insta-gank even a non-minion level 1 goblin, so representing it as a minion is simply a convenience in that sense. Secondly, I would probably make it a higher level minion, and then it would represent a strong, but still trivially weaker, goblin (say a level 16 minion). Either way it will die from one arrow. There could be a few corner cases between the minion and the non-minion where the non-minion is 'more durable' but to a fairly trivial degree. I think that, if you look at it objectively, earlier editions DID, and Gygax agrees with me! [/QUOTE]
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