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In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7612176" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Yep. Particularly if you're delving deep into what hps might be 'modeling,' you determine that they're, well, non-deterministic. Because, /really/ RPGs don't model the imagined world - 'realistic' ones /try/ to, of course, but it's futile. Because the imagined world isn't real, it can't be modeled, there's no way to check your model's accuracy or use it to make predictions. Instead, it'd be closer to the truth to say that, if modeling anything, RPGs model stories in their genre. </p><p></p><p>A 'main' (or ensemble or even supporting or 'name' villain) character is hit and goes down. There's a moment (or few) of tension for the viewer, as we go "yeah, there's no way they're killing him off... oh, well, maybe they're going for a GoT thing... nah... maybe... nah... Oh, he's fine!" Death at 0 and negative hps didn't model that (unless the DM tracked them secretly, even then, you /knew/ there was a clock ticking). Adding stabilization helped. Death saves definitely do the trick pretty well.</p><p></p><p>Thing is, a character dropping is FAR from the only time good (and even cliché or hackneyed - and RPGs should be so lucky as to rise to the level of hackneyed) stories leave the audience in suspense or hit them up with a twist like that. Schrodinger's Mechanics can model that kind of thing, pretty easily, and not necessarily in a complicated way. Simply delaying a check until it 'matters,' for instance, can do it. This came up in a thread that touched on 'knowledge checks' - if you make a knowledge check, determine success/failure, and give the character information (or don't, or give him false information), especially info the player likely already has, it's not very satisfying, doesn't model the flow of an actual story, and may not even work if the player has meta-knowledge of his own (like, he read the MM or he saw the result of the check and can make a good guess whether it succeeded). But, if you make the knowledge check as the resultant plans/preparations come to fruition in play, you get something that plays out with some genre fidelity.</p><p></p><p></p><p>To use the tiredest example, the party finds out they'll be fighting trolls. Yawn, everyone knows fire, and most know acid works too, but the characters, the DM decides, don't necessarily, though the resident smart-guy (Lore Bard, Wizard, Taclord, whatever) might. So smarty thinks about it, goes to the local adventurers' supply shopppe, and comes back with a sack of vials he hands out to toss at the trolls.</p><p></p><p>Once the vials start flying at trolls, he rolls his knowledge check. On a success, it's acid or Greek fire or at least flammable oil. On a failure, it's lilac-smelling 'troll repellent.'</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7612176, member: 996"] Yep. Particularly if you're delving deep into what hps might be 'modeling,' you determine that they're, well, non-deterministic. Because, /really/ RPGs don't model the imagined world - 'realistic' ones /try/ to, of course, but it's futile. Because the imagined world isn't real, it can't be modeled, there's no way to check your model's accuracy or use it to make predictions. Instead, it'd be closer to the truth to say that, if modeling anything, RPGs model stories in their genre. A 'main' (or ensemble or even supporting or 'name' villain) character is hit and goes down. There's a moment (or few) of tension for the viewer, as we go "yeah, there's no way they're killing him off... oh, well, maybe they're going for a GoT thing... nah... maybe... nah... Oh, he's fine!" Death at 0 and negative hps didn't model that (unless the DM tracked them secretly, even then, you /knew/ there was a clock ticking). Adding stabilization helped. Death saves definitely do the trick pretty well. Thing is, a character dropping is FAR from the only time good (and even cliché or hackneyed - and RPGs should be so lucky as to rise to the level of hackneyed) stories leave the audience in suspense or hit them up with a twist like that. Schrodinger's Mechanics can model that kind of thing, pretty easily, and not necessarily in a complicated way. Simply delaying a check until it 'matters,' for instance, can do it. This came up in a thread that touched on 'knowledge checks' - if you make a knowledge check, determine success/failure, and give the character information (or don't, or give him false information), especially info the player likely already has, it's not very satisfying, doesn't model the flow of an actual story, and may not even work if the player has meta-knowledge of his own (like, he read the MM or he saw the result of the check and can make a good guess whether it succeeded). But, if you make the knowledge check as the resultant plans/preparations come to fruition in play, you get something that plays out with some genre fidelity. To use the tiredest example, the party finds out they'll be fighting trolls. Yawn, everyone knows fire, and most know acid works too, but the characters, the DM decides, don't necessarily, though the resident smart-guy (Lore Bard, Wizard, Taclord, whatever) might. So smarty thinks about it, goes to the local adventurers' supply shopppe, and comes back with a sack of vials he hands out to toss at the trolls. Once the vials start flying at trolls, he rolls his knowledge check. On a success, it's acid or Greek fire or at least flammable oil. On a failure, it's lilac-smelling 'troll repellent.' [/QUOTE]
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