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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7032365" data-attributes="member: 6801228">The mile is the upper limit, but not the only break point. How about spells from 700 ft away? No archer could hit you, ever. 1400 ft away, they can't even get in range, on horseback, before you've finished blowing them sky high. Granted, Eldritch blast + spell sniper + Eldritch Spear + Distant + whatever can get you similiar results, but that is a huge investment in feats and class features and multi-classing. Or take Lore Wizard. I think that is where this conversation keeps breaking down, honestly. Each ability, taken alone, has perhaps 1 or 2 crazy good uses, but outside of that they don't seem very good. However, the Lore Wizard gets all of them he doesn't have to pick to gain the ability to add damage over the ability to add range over the ability to ignore fire resistance and immunity (which other people need a feat to ignore resistance)They get all of those abilities, by 6th level. Along with all of the normal versatility and power of every other wizard. I see portent pulled up a lot as an example of something better than the Lore wizard's ability. Let's say I grant you that portent is the better ability. 2 per day vs the expected 3 per day of the Lore Wizard. And Lore has increased Initiative and damage swapping and Expertise at lv 2.I can't remember what the Lv 6 ability for Divination is, is it as good as the versatility offered in the Alchemical casting, if you look at all 3 abilities?Go down the line, compare each ability and look at the whole. Even if portent is better than the 3 per day save swap and the +2 DC from Alchemical combined onto the same spell. Are all the other things the Lore Wizard gains more or less valuable?Sure, maybe you don't want damage, maybe you play the God Wizard and damage spells are a trap you avoid. Think of all the times a buff or debuff thrown from outside your normal range would be clinch. Think of how great swapping a spell you prepared out would beThink of the crazy things you can do with access to every spell in the game, even if it is only once per dayAnd you get increased damage potential.And, to just take a step back and look at flavor. How does this concept of the general wizard work anyways?"I've studied magic deeply, so I can draw forth more of its potential" ... Isn't that why wizards specialize? Wouldn't studying general magic just get you the same effects those wizards get when casting outside their schools? Shouldn't you be worse at casting spells of the particular school than the specialists?"I have a prodigious intellect, so I can call forth entire spells without needing to have memorized them" .... Isn't this all wizards? Or is the General/Lore wizard the actual smart one and the others only specialized because they were too dumb to be a Lore wizard? All wizards have prodigious intellects and highly analytical minds, that's what makes them wizards! Saying the Lore wizard is smarter than the Illusionist or Necromancer is like saying the College Senior in 7 different degree programs is smarter than the guy who is in Law or Theoretical Physics... because he didn't specialize in a field of study?And yes, they need to take a long hard look at the sorcerer. They perhaps need to rewrite it from the ground up.</blockquote>

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