NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Doug McCrae" data-source="post: 5617390" data-attributes="member: 21169">Some might say that 4e's daily and encounter powers are more simulationist than 3e. In 3e a PC with min/maxed tripping could easily succesfully trip an opponent every round, whereas in 4e this would only be happening once per fight. In real fights we tend not to see the same maneuver used succesfully over and over again. Opponents take defensive measures, openings only occur so often, and so forth.It's true that the 4e mechanic is more dissociated in the sense that the PC doesn't know he can do this only 1/encounter or 1/day, unless we enter Order of the Stick territory. But this demonstrates that simulationism is not the same thing as associated mechanics.Another point is that D&D has always had dissociated mechanics/play:1. Choosing a PC's race2. Hit points3. Saving throws4. Xp for gold5. Certain classes being banned from wearing particular types of armour or weapons6. Handwaving the boring bits - travelling to the dungeon, shopping for equipment7. Use of <a href="http://www.ego4u.com/en/cram-up/grammar/reported-speech" target="_blank">reported speech</a>8. Starting a PC's career on completion of his 1st level training rather than from birthIf a lack of dissociation is the key feature of a roleplaying game then we must accept that LARPing is a truer form of rpg than tabletop because in LARP the player is less dissociated from his character. Some LARPers do indeed take this view, I believe.I've always treated combat in rpgs as a sort of separate mini-wargame. In fact I had an epiphany regarding this while playing Champions in the early 90s, my exact thought was, "It's a wargame!" It's particularly noticeable with rpgs that have very rules heavy combat such as Champions, 3e and 4e, but it's true to a large degree of combat in all rpgs. I think this is because any time the players interact with the rules, talk about the rules, think about the rules, then they are dissociated from the game world. "The rules get in the way of the roleplaying" is a common saying amongst rpgers in my area, a criticism of rules heavy games, and I pretty much agree with it. One could even say that non-turn based computer games, by hiding the mechanics and operating in real time are less dissociated than tabletop rpgs, which are of a much more 'stop and start' nature.</blockquote>

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