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In Defense of the Theory of Dissociated Mechanics
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<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 5618573" data-attributes="member: 386"><p>Ah, that makes sense! I was having trouble understanding The Alexandrian's essay as I was looking at it through my own biases. This clears it up for me. Thanks, RC.</p><p></p><p>In my own words: Dissociated mechanics aren't about the fact that what's happening in the game world doesn't <em>necessarily</em> have an influence over resolution; they are about associating player choice with character choice. </p><p></p><p>The idea I had in my head was that Power Attack was "dissociated" - what your character is actually doing in the game world doesn't matter, as long as you meet the rules requirements listed in the Feat. This is similar to the Slide Effect of Trick Strike; what your character is doing to move his foe isn't important.</p><p></p><p>The difference between Power Attack and Trick Strike is that Power Attack is a choice that you, as a player, can make, as well as a choice that your character can make in the game world. You want to trade BAB for Damage, while your character wants to trade precision for power. The player's decision and the character's decision are related - or associated. Trick Strike, being a Daily power, is a choice a player can make but the character cannot. The character will want to use Trick Strike as often as possible but is prohibited from doing so more than once per Extended Rest.</p><p></p><p>(I've been playing 3.5 lately, using Power Attack a lot, so it's on my mind. Wraithstrike is a powerful spell. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> )</p><p></p><p>Hmm... I'm not sure I understand it yet. Let me keep on rambling.</p><p></p><p>From the PC's point of view, he's trying to feint and get in a really good hit each time he attacks. From the player's point of view, he's trying to knock the NPC's hit points to 0 and manipulate the NPC's position on the field of battle. The dissociation comes from the fact that the player can activate a Daily power to achieve this goal while the character, from his point of view, cannot.</p><p></p><p>With Power Attack, the player can decide to trade BAB for Damage, while the PC can decide to trade precision for power. But what happens when a character without the Power Attack Feat attempts the same action? He cannot trade precision for power - it's not just that he's less effective at it, it's impossible for him. The player knows this - but why should the character? Trading precision for power seems like a plausible action for a character to take.</p><p></p><p>Is it then the case that Power Attack is a dissociated mechanic? Contrast it to Combat Expertise - you don't need the Feat to be able to fight defensively, it's just better if you have it. A character and a player can make the same choice - "I want to fight defensively" - it's just that Combat Expertise makes that choice a better one. A character without Power Attack cannot take the completely plausible and sensible action of trading precision for power. Nor can a character without Spring Attack even attempt to strike at a hydra before it can respond with a bite from all of its heads, though to me that seems like a plausible action by a D&D character, even if you have to suffer a quick strike because you haven't learned to properly protect yourself yet.</p><p></p><p>What have I misunderstood here? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it's pretty clear that I don't understand what is meant by dissociated mechanics! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> That's why I'm not sure that I removed any dissociation from my hack. I left Martial Daily Exploits in, for example; I just tied them more closely to Quests (and renamed them "Determined Exploits"). I also have a section in the player's guide that tells players to draw on their player knowledge, not just character knowledge, when making decisions!</p><p></p><p>What I was trying to do was manipulate the player's decision-making process in a way that makes success more likely if the player pays attention to the game world. I attempted to do this by including details of the game world as a relevant factor in action resolution - which is a long-winded way of saying <em>how</em> your character makes his "to-hit roll" is important to the "game" part of the RPG.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 5618573, member: 386"] Ah, that makes sense! I was having trouble understanding The Alexandrian's essay as I was looking at it through my own biases. This clears it up for me. Thanks, RC. In my own words: Dissociated mechanics aren't about the fact that what's happening in the game world doesn't [i]necessarily[/i] have an influence over resolution; they are about associating player choice with character choice. The idea I had in my head was that Power Attack was "dissociated" - what your character is actually doing in the game world doesn't matter, as long as you meet the rules requirements listed in the Feat. This is similar to the Slide Effect of Trick Strike; what your character is doing to move his foe isn't important. The difference between Power Attack and Trick Strike is that Power Attack is a choice that you, as a player, can make, as well as a choice that your character can make in the game world. You want to trade BAB for Damage, while your character wants to trade precision for power. The player's decision and the character's decision are related - or associated. Trick Strike, being a Daily power, is a choice a player can make but the character cannot. The character will want to use Trick Strike as often as possible but is prohibited from doing so more than once per Extended Rest. (I've been playing 3.5 lately, using Power Attack a lot, so it's on my mind. Wraithstrike is a powerful spell. ;) ) Hmm... I'm not sure I understand it yet. Let me keep on rambling. From the PC's point of view, he's trying to feint and get in a really good hit each time he attacks. From the player's point of view, he's trying to knock the NPC's hit points to 0 and manipulate the NPC's position on the field of battle. The dissociation comes from the fact that the player can activate a Daily power to achieve this goal while the character, from his point of view, cannot. With Power Attack, the player can decide to trade BAB for Damage, while the PC can decide to trade precision for power. But what happens when a character without the Power Attack Feat attempts the same action? He cannot trade precision for power - it's not just that he's less effective at it, it's impossible for him. The player knows this - but why should the character? Trading precision for power seems like a plausible action for a character to take. Is it then the case that Power Attack is a dissociated mechanic? Contrast it to Combat Expertise - you don't need the Feat to be able to fight defensively, it's just better if you have it. A character and a player can make the same choice - "I want to fight defensively" - it's just that Combat Expertise makes that choice a better one. A character without Power Attack cannot take the completely plausible and sensible action of trading precision for power. Nor can a character without Spring Attack even attempt to strike at a hydra before it can respond with a bite from all of its heads, though to me that seems like a plausible action by a D&D character, even if you have to suffer a quick strike because you haven't learned to properly protect yourself yet. What have I misunderstood here? I think it's pretty clear that I don't understand what is meant by dissociated mechanics! :) That's why I'm not sure that I removed any dissociation from my hack. I left Martial Daily Exploits in, for example; I just tied them more closely to Quests (and renamed them "Determined Exploits"). I also have a section in the player's guide that tells players to draw on their player knowledge, not just character knowledge, when making decisions! What I was trying to do was manipulate the player's decision-making process in a way that makes success more likely if the player pays attention to the game world. I attempted to do this by including details of the game world as a relevant factor in action resolution - which is a long-winded way of saying [i]how[/i] your character makes his "to-hit roll" is important to the "game" part of the RPG. [/QUOTE]
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