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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5619774" data-attributes="member: 54877">As long as we are talking about not being convinced, I'm not convinced that there is anything more to &quot;disassociated&quot; as defined in the essay than &quot;abstraction that I don't like/understand/get&quot; whatever word you want to use there at the end.&nbsp; It's been asserted several times, but every counter example is just another way of looking at abstractions.&nbsp;Now, I'll grant that there are different kinds of abstractions, and that some of them might make model/imagined reality associations more or less difficult, cumbersome, or what have you.&nbsp; That is why when you play the &quot;word association&quot; game with people, you get such interesting and surprising results.&nbsp; Anyone old enough to remember watching a session of &quot;Password&quot; (either the game show, or the imitation parlor game) go completely bad, because two peoples' assocations get out of sync, can appreciate how this might become frustratingly comical in an RPG. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp;&quot;If they are moved in such a way that they cease to have a meaningful relationship to what they were originally supposed to be abstracting, that's what is being called dissociated. &quot;&nbsp;What other meaningful relationship can there be but the associations people have made in their minds?&nbsp; Using that definition, the whole theory becomes nothing but a tautology:&nbsp; Thing are disassociated when I don't associate them.&nbsp; Well, yeah! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/angel.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":angel:" title="Angel&nbsp; &nbsp; :angel:" data-shortname=":angel:" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5619774, member: 54877"] As long as we are talking about not being convinced, I'm not convinced that there is anything more to "disassociated" as defined in the essay than "abstraction that I don't like/understand/get" whatever word you want to use there at the end. It's been asserted several times, but every counter example is just another way of looking at abstractions. Now, I'll grant that there are different kinds of abstractions, and that some of them might make model/imagined reality associations more or less difficult, cumbersome, or what have you. That is why when you play the "word association" game with people, you get such interesting and surprising results. Anyone old enough to remember watching a session of "Password" (either the game show, or the imitation parlor game) go completely bad, because two peoples' assocations get out of sync, can appreciate how this might become frustratingly comical in an RPG. :D "If they are moved in such a way that they cease to have a meaningful relationship to what they were originally supposed to be abstracting, that's what is being called dissociated. " What other meaningful relationship can there be but the associations people have made in their minds? Using that definition, the whole theory becomes nothing but a tautology: Thing are disassociated when I don't associate them. Well, yeah! :angel: [/QUOTE]

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