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<blockquote data-quote="Yesway Jose" data-source="post: 5621086" data-attributes="member: 6679265">I agree, I believe these statistics can never prove causation.&nbsp;You started to lose me after that (sorry!) so I will re-read it later again, but I just wanted to say that: In one sense, maybe who cares about rigorously defining whether a mechanic is disassociated or not, an abstraction, an issue process vs outcome, etc.?&nbsp;The ultimate complaint is that certain amounts and kinds of disassociations are making it difficult to immerse or simulate or narrate the fiction. (Sorry, I don't have time to be rigorous in my definitions here).&nbsp;I think the question, if you look at thousands of people in actual gameplay over thousands of game sessions, are they paying attention to the fiction, and is that due to or despite of the mechanics? I think that's what ultimately matters if the goal is suspension of disbelief and roleplaying and all that?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Yesway Jose, post: 5621086, member: 6679265"] I agree, I believe these statistics can never prove causation. You started to lose me after that (sorry!) so I will re-read it later again, but I just wanted to say that: In one sense, maybe who cares about rigorously defining whether a mechanic is disassociated or not, an abstraction, an issue process vs outcome, etc.? The ultimate complaint is that certain amounts and kinds of disassociations are making it difficult to immerse or simulate or narrate the fiction. (Sorry, I don't have time to be rigorous in my definitions here). I think the question, if you look at thousands of people in actual gameplay over thousands of game sessions, are they paying attention to the fiction, and is that due to or despite of the mechanics? I think that's what ultimately matters if the goal is suspension of disbelief and roleplaying and all that? [/QUOTE]

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