NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aberzanzorax" data-source="post: 5625244" data-attributes="member: 64209">EXCELLENT PONT (the whole post, but this in particular). Hell, if I were naive enough to claim it, I'd be tempted to say "this is the reasoning behind the edition wars! Now we've solved them!" Of course it's more complicated than that (there's no single reason for edition wars), but I mean that as a compliment to you. That was a really good point.  I think that 4e may have subtly tipped the balance from one stance to another. By that I mean, I've contributed to (or started) threads about how much D&D can change before it isn't D&D (with no real conclusion), threads about what is or isn't different in 4e (which have been vague or confusing with some observing large changes others view as small and vice versa), threads about how 4e does x,y, or z better or worse than 3e (which always seems to result in anecdotes about how 3e also did the same things better or worse also). The editions ARE different, and I've never been fully able to wrangle the actual differences conceptually. I'm starting to wonder if this focus (again, focus, not existence of dissociated mechanics for good---not evil.) is a big part of the change from 3e to 4e. I'll also point out that dissociated is a pejorative tone on it's own. Perhaps if we embraced terms describing the major differences in POSITIVE terms, it might be more acceptable/reasonable/enjoyable for all of us.  I'm going to put forth the terms of: dissociated/narrativist/actor driven for 4e, as a set.andassociated/simulationist/character driven for 3e, as a set.  I'd like to improve upon dissociated and associated though. They're the terms we're using here, but again, I recognize they have weight in terms of quality. What about, instead of them, using (and I may need some help here with better suggestions)... "storytelling players" versus "rules tell the story for players".  I'm going to flat out admit that last distinction was clumsy, but if people agree with the rest of the post, perhaps we can come together and find positive terms for "associative" versus "dissociative", because it seems we're beginning to understand what we mean, but the terms have unnecessary baggage.</blockquote>

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