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Message: <blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 5626172" data-attributes="member: 25619">To me, the heart of D&D 3.5e (and AD&D, the only other edition I played much of) is:The party is running out of HP.  Some people are down.  I'm playing a Fighter or a Paladin, or perhaps a Cleric or Wizard who is out of a useful spells.  While I await my turn, I scan my character sheet, looking for long-ago acquired items and start wondering what I can possibly do to save the day.  I or a friend comes with some hair-brained scheme, like:- dumping all 10 flasks of oil from my backpack and lighting them to make a mini-wall of fire to hold off the monster, - jumping off the bridge into what I hope is an underground river to try to get away,- casting Rope Trick and scooting up the rope just before the rolling earth elementals coming from both directions smash together beneath us,- trying to Bull Rush the one gargoyle into smashing its magic horn against the damage-resistant other gargoyle when we don't have magic weapons, - use the chain to entangle your friend in mid-air just before he falls to his death,- go ahead and turn on the deactivated robot because hey maybe it will kill the monster before it kills you,- summon a celestial monkey behind the archer at the arrowslit and hope it messes with his aim long enough for you to race by,- or trying to leap onto the Nightmare to grapple with the rider.Out of crazy ideas comes victory from the jaws of defeat, or TPK, but either way it is glorious!Whereas with 4e, I haven't seen this joy yet.  Admittedly, we've only played about a dozen sessions.  But it seems like when the chips are down, it's NOT the time to pull out the "sounds kinda crazy, but it just might work" ideas and act like Captain Kirk or Erroll Flynn.  Nope, it's time to keep grinding with the old reliable At Wills, because you already used all the Dailies and Encounter Powers and the Action Point/heal move early in the fight (using the traditional D&D maxim: kill them before they get a chance to kill you) and it doesn't seem like you're ALLOWED to think outside the box.In other words, to me, AD&D and 3/3.5e are story telling games, where anything you can dream of is possible, if not terribly likely.  Whereas 4e feels like a game, with more solid rules and only the rules -- like a board game or a computer game -- if the idea is not a predetermined thing you can do as determined by the official game author, you can't do it.Maybe the fault is how we play 4e, since we are still new to it, rather than in the game rules itself . . .But this does seem like the same basic argument here -- too much "gamism" in 4e as being the grognard indictment of it.</blockquote>

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