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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5627276" data-attributes="member: 22779">I'm going to assume that you mean, "less immersiveness" for you.Unless you're going to argue that granting limited editorial control to players objectively destroys immersion, in which case I'm going to strongly disagree with you.  For one, that means no DM can ever be immersed.  For two, there are far, far too many games out there that grant a great deal of player editorial control that are considered pretty darn immersive.As far as consistency goes, again, I disagree.  Going back to the football example, having one bad call per game is completely consistent with expectations of a football game.  Having one FANTASTIC catch is consistent with a football game.  Granting the ability to choose when that happens to the players instead of the dice does not require any loss of consistency.  As far as cause and effect goes, I really don't get this one.  What difference does it make if the player declares that the mooks rush him and he bulls his way through (Come and Get It) or the DM declares the mooks rush him and he bulls his way through?  Cause and effect are both exactly the same.  The mooks rushed in and got creamed.  Perfectly in keeping with genre expectations.I can totally understand if this bugs you.  That's perfectly fine.  Different strokes and all that.  But, that doesn't make the mechanics bad, just different.  I think it was you that said upthread that the same narrative effects can be gained from different means.If the end result is the same, what difference does it really make, other than personal preference?</blockquote>

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