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In Defense of the Theory of Dissociated Mechanics
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5627319" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The rogue is the one with fencing skill. And has no daily.</p><p></p><p>The player may or may not have fencing skill (Crazy Jerome apparently has some; I have none) but does have the daily.</p><p></p><p>So I find your assumption a little hard to parse.</p><p></p><p>If you mean that another player might have a PC who has fencing skill, although that player's PC build does not include Trick Shot or any other salient daily power (perhaps, eg, the PC in question is an Essentials Thief), then yes, that is true. But why does what is on player B's character sheet "dissociate" player A from his or her PC?</p><p></p><p></p><p>This gets my position wrong. In my view, the PC - who is a mere element of the overall fiction - does not use narrative control. The <em>player </em>uses narrative control. The ability that the PC uses - the success of that use being determined, in part, by the player's exercise of narrative control - may well have reasoning that can be learned, explored or observed in-game.</p><p></p><p>(Not always. Sometimes when the player of the dwarf fighter in my game uses Come and Get It, this corresonds to skillful polearm techniques that manipulate the enemy on the battlefield. This is a skill that can be learned, explored or observed in game. But sometimes when Come and Get It is used, this corresponds to "coincidence" or "good luck" as the enemies rush in to get the dwarf, who then lays them all low with his halberd. That sort of "coincidence" or "good luck" cannot be learned, explored or observed in game. It is more like the sort of thing that some Fate Point mechanics - such as those in OGL Conan - permit.)</p><p></p><p>I don't quite follow this, either. Let's put to one side wrecan's very salient points about the relationship between the combat mechanics, combat powers, and the passage of time and events in the gameworld. Clearly the fictional characters in the gameworld can notice how often the rogue produces the result of Trick Strike (ie how often the rogue fences really well, in such a fashion as to force his/her opponent to move across the battlefield at the rogue's whim).</p><p></p><p>Whether such a result occurs once per day, or more often, or less often, depends on some mixture of (i) the GM's encounter design, (ii) the way the players' engage the GM's encounters, (iii) what other powers and abilities the rogue has, etc.</p><p></p><p>Suppose, for example, the party includes a leader who has a power that lets his/her allies slide their enemies when they hit them. How often the rogue produces the result of Trick Strike will depend, at least in part, on how that leader power is used.</p><p></p><p>Or suppose the rogue, as well as Trick Strike, has the Low Slash and/or Positioning Strike encounter powers - which, on a hit, allow sliding the target. Then it is quite likely that the rogue will produce the result of Trick Strike multiple times per day. (This would be a rogue build that, structurally, resembles the build of the dwarf fighter PC in my game, which I described upthread.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5627319, member: 42582"] The rogue is the one with fencing skill. And has no daily. The player may or may not have fencing skill (Crazy Jerome apparently has some; I have none) but does have the daily. So I find your assumption a little hard to parse. If you mean that another player might have a PC who has fencing skill, although that player's PC build does not include Trick Shot or any other salient daily power (perhaps, eg, the PC in question is an Essentials Thief), then yes, that is true. But why does what is on player B's character sheet "dissociate" player A from his or her PC? This gets my position wrong. In my view, the PC - who is a mere element of the overall fiction - does not use narrative control. The [I]player [/I]uses narrative control. The ability that the PC uses - the success of that use being determined, in part, by the player's exercise of narrative control - may well have reasoning that can be learned, explored or observed in-game. (Not always. Sometimes when the player of the dwarf fighter in my game uses Come and Get It, this corresonds to skillful polearm techniques that manipulate the enemy on the battlefield. This is a skill that can be learned, explored or observed in game. But sometimes when Come and Get It is used, this corresponds to "coincidence" or "good luck" as the enemies rush in to get the dwarf, who then lays them all low with his halberd. That sort of "coincidence" or "good luck" cannot be learned, explored or observed in game. It is more like the sort of thing that some Fate Point mechanics - such as those in OGL Conan - permit.) I don't quite follow this, either. Let's put to one side wrecan's very salient points about the relationship between the combat mechanics, combat powers, and the passage of time and events in the gameworld. Clearly the fictional characters in the gameworld can notice how often the rogue produces the result of Trick Strike (ie how often the rogue fences really well, in such a fashion as to force his/her opponent to move across the battlefield at the rogue's whim). Whether such a result occurs once per day, or more often, or less often, depends on some mixture of (i) the GM's encounter design, (ii) the way the players' engage the GM's encounters, (iii) what other powers and abilities the rogue has, etc. Suppose, for example, the party includes a leader who has a power that lets his/her allies slide their enemies when they hit them. How often the rogue produces the result of Trick Strike will depend, at least in part, on how that leader power is used. Or suppose the rogue, as well as Trick Strike, has the Low Slash and/or Positioning Strike encounter powers - which, on a hit, allow sliding the target. Then it is quite likely that the rogue will produce the result of Trick Strike multiple times per day. (This would be a rogue build that, structurally, resembles the build of the dwarf fighter PC in my game, which I described upthread.) [/QUOTE]
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