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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5627494" data-attributes="member: 6668292">If you have questions, I have answers. I think we obviously have very different play styles, so unless you find it highly beneficial to ask, no need to worry about it.Right. Which is why I say it's attached to the character, and thus a specific-character mechanic. The character cannot consciously activate it, I agree.Agreed.I'd say that by that definition, all mechanics that the player controls are then, including the character. That's such a detached view from how I think I'd like to look at things that I cannot relate to it very easily.I think you may be misunderstanding my view, as this isn't the case from what I've talked about. I've said that the player gets to decide on a meta level, not the character. We're in agreement on that.The character is affected by the narrative control feature (the daily power) attached to his character that the player activates.Yeah, I understand that. Which is why I said earlier that it's a meta power the player activates ("I agree that the player activates the power from a meta standpoint, and that the character never thinks to activate it (it's a meta device<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />").It doesn't mean that. It means that when the player activates the meta ability attached to the PC, the PC then goes on to use the power -sliding a creature one square, or the like. While the daily power is narrative in use, the character "uses" it not by activating the ability (that's what the player does), but by actually sliding the creature one square.Hopefully you understand somewhat better what I mean here now.That'd make it dissociated to people that it disengaged from their role.You're saying that the rogue can be controlled in a narrative manner by the player to slide a creature one square, and the rogue is unconscious of it. I agree with that.You went on to say that the rogue could do this more often if he had "the Low Slash and/or Positioning Strike encounter powers" or "a leader who has a power that lets his/her allies slide their enemies when they hit them."  These were brought up to show how often the rogue could be controlled each day (by the player using the daily power).To that end, you've added outside factors to the mix; instead of looking at how often the rogue can slide a creature one square, we're looking at how often he can do it with help, or with new powers. Looking at his powers without help from outside forces would be the vacuum I mentioned in my last post. And, even if we add the encounter powers, he can still only do it so often in a single encounter, no matter how long the encounter might last.Testing would consist of looking at patterns to the narrative produced by using the powers. Testing in a vacuum would consist of looking at patterns to the narrative produced by using the powers without outside aid (from a leader, for example). If the rogue can consistently pull off one type of move a set number of times per encounter (or per day), no matter how long the encounter is, and this can be repeated dozens, hundreds, thousands of times, that would be the testing I mentioned.So, the rogue is unaware of this narrative control. The problem in my mind is that a pattern can certainly still manifest itself, even though the rogue should have no grasp on the narrative mechanic whatsoever. That would mean that the mechanic could potentially be observed in-game, but the reasoning could not be learned, explored, or observed in-game. That would make the mechanic dissociated to anyone that it caused to lose focus on their role (lose immersion).While rigorous testing need not be applied, just knowing that a mechanic works in such a way can be dissociating in an of itself to certain players. I accept that it doesn't happen to you, your group, others in this thread, others on this board, maybe even others at large.They wouldn't. Exactly right.As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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