Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="wrecan" data-source="post: 5634888" data-attributes="member: 64825">And this is where the world-building aspect comes in.&nbsp; If you play 4e, then you only have to consider the campaign-altering aspects of individual improvisation you make, and in the vast majority of cases, that won't happen.With 3e, the campaign-altering aspects, such as Zone of Truth and Fabricate, and others are hidden in the rules.&nbsp; It might not become apparent that it renders pieces of the game nonsensible until after the mechanic has already been implemented and relied upon and established.&nbsp; So, for example, an adventuring party may have been gleefully using Zone of Truth once or twice to extract information from NPCs.&nbsp; Then, much later, the adventuers find themselves in some Name of the Rose situation at a secluded community of priests, where a murder has occurred.&nbsp; One of the players pipes up... hey, this place is full of priests?&nbsp; Why didn't they use Zone of Truth?&nbsp; The DM suddenly realizes there's no in-game reason.&nbsp; Now he and the players have to figure out how to undo all that's been done.4e doesn't have that issue.&nbsp; Instead, what happens is a player says, &quot;Hey, I worship the god of truth... can I have a ritual that compels people to tell the truth?&quot;&nbsp; Only at that point, do the DM and players have to contemplate how this might affect the campaign world.For 3e, the campaign issue is ubiquitous yet also hidden.&nbsp; Every campaign world, theoretically, either has to figure out why wizards aren't getting rich off Walls of Iron, why masons exist in worlds of Lyres of Building, and why every court isn't equipped with a Zone of Truth item and a collection of Helms of Opposite Alignment, as well as a host of other problematic spells that many DMs may not come across, but may stumble across after it's too late, or house rule them.&nbsp; In 4e, the campaign is built around cinematic heroic fantasy.&nbsp; If your campaign world incorporates that style, you're probably fine, and then you only have to worry about altering your campaign world when you improvise.I still have no idea what this has to do with dissociation.&nbsp; Now we seem to be discussing broad mechanics that allow more creativity with the risk of imbalance and campaign damage, against narrow mechanics.&nbsp;No, it doesn't, because the social contract operates very differently when you discover a problem after it manifests in a campaign vs. anticipating a problem as you improvise.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="wrecan, post: 5634888, member: 64825"] And this is where the world-building aspect comes in. If you play 4e, then you only have to consider the campaign-altering aspects of individual improvisation you make, and in the vast majority of cases, that won't happen. With 3e, the campaign-altering aspects, such as Zone of Truth and Fabricate, and others are hidden in the rules. It might not become apparent that it renders pieces of the game nonsensible until after the mechanic has already been implemented and relied upon and established. So, for example, an adventuring party may have been gleefully using Zone of Truth once or twice to extract information from NPCs. Then, much later, the adventuers find themselves in some Name of the Rose situation at a secluded community of priests, where a murder has occurred. One of the players pipes up... hey, this place is full of priests? Why didn't they use Zone of Truth? The DM suddenly realizes there's no in-game reason. Now he and the players have to figure out how to undo all that's been done. 4e doesn't have that issue. Instead, what happens is a player says, "Hey, I worship the god of truth... can I have a ritual that compels people to tell the truth?" Only at that point, do the DM and players have to contemplate how this might affect the campaign world. For 3e, the campaign issue is ubiquitous yet also hidden. Every campaign world, theoretically, either has to figure out why wizards aren't getting rich off Walls of Iron, why masons exist in worlds of Lyres of Building, and why every court isn't equipped with a Zone of Truth item and a collection of Helms of Opposite Alignment, as well as a host of other problematic spells that many DMs may not come across, but may stumble across after it's too late, or house rule them. In 4e, the campaign is built around cinematic heroic fantasy. If your campaign world incorporates that style, you're probably fine, and then you only have to worry about altering your campaign world when you improvise. I still have no idea what this has to do with dissociation. Now we seem to be discussing broad mechanics that allow more creativity with the risk of imbalance and campaign damage, against narrow mechanics. No, it doesn't, because the social contract operates very differently when you discover a problem after it manifests in a campaign vs. anticipating a problem as you improvise. [/QUOTE]

Verification