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In Defense of the Theory of Dissociated Mechanics
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5639928" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm sorry to hear of your frustration. I'm also sorry that you think I'm pettifoggin on semantics.</p><p></p><p>From my perspective, you're putting forward a notion - mechanics that are metagame on the page, but are rendered simulationist in play - that I don't understand. I'm not looking for an abstract definition. I'm looking for illustrations - whether actual play or seriously worked out hypotheticals - that explain what you have in mind.</p><p></p><p>You might be right. I'm not sure where we disagree, because I don't know what Yesway Jose has in mind (as above).</p><p></p><p>And every time Yesway Jose describes metagame mechanics (like the duration of Baleful Polymorph) it seems to incorporate an assumption that the mechanic in fact operates in a simulationist fashion (ie that because the power must be narrated as ending at a certain time <em>come whay may</em>, this means that <em>within the gameworld</em> the power will end at that time <em>come what may</em>).</p><p></p><p>Are you thinking of the flavour text at the top of a power?</p><p></p><p>There are also the effect and damage keywords, which (as I've tried to explain upthread) are the key anchor between mechanics and fiction in narrating and resolving 4e power use.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right. This is the stuff I cited upthread from Ron Edwards about fortune-in-the-middle and Vincent Baker about invention occurrng during play, not prior to play.</p><p></p><p>The 4e mechanics set parameters on permissible narration - an attack was successful, or some fire damage was dealt, or someone moved here or move thered, or whatever - but the narration of how that comes about is up for grabs until worked out in the course of actually playing the game.</p><p></p><p>This is what [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION]'s recent posts have been reflecting on - how it changes play from a simulationist approach.</p><p></p><p>Agreed. This is why I say that 4e's mechanics don't support simulationist play very well. (I don't like the word "dissociated", because it implies a lack of immersion or engagement that doesn't reflect my experience - as per my anecdote about the paladin player in my game - but that's orthogonal to my agreement with you excellent post.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5639928, member: 42582"] I'm sorry to hear of your frustration. I'm also sorry that you think I'm pettifoggin on semantics. From my perspective, you're putting forward a notion - mechanics that are metagame on the page, but are rendered simulationist in play - that I don't understand. I'm not looking for an abstract definition. I'm looking for illustrations - whether actual play or seriously worked out hypotheticals - that explain what you have in mind. You might be right. I'm not sure where we disagree, because I don't know what Yesway Jose has in mind (as above). And every time Yesway Jose describes metagame mechanics (like the duration of Baleful Polymorph) it seems to incorporate an assumption that the mechanic in fact operates in a simulationist fashion (ie that because the power must be narrated as ending at a certain time [I]come whay may[/I], this means that [I]within the gameworld[/I] the power will end at that time [I]come what may[/I]). Are you thinking of the flavour text at the top of a power? There are also the effect and damage keywords, which (as I've tried to explain upthread) are the key anchor between mechanics and fiction in narrating and resolving 4e power use. Right. This is the stuff I cited upthread from Ron Edwards about fortune-in-the-middle and Vincent Baker about invention occurrng during play, not prior to play. The 4e mechanics set parameters on permissible narration - an attack was successful, or some fire damage was dealt, or someone moved here or move thered, or whatever - but the narration of how that comes about is up for grabs until worked out in the course of actually playing the game. This is what [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION]'s recent posts have been reflecting on - how it changes play from a simulationist approach. Agreed. This is why I say that 4e's mechanics don't support simulationist play very well. (I don't like the word "dissociated", because it implies a lack of immersion or engagement that doesn't reflect my experience - as per my anecdote about the paladin player in my game - but that's orthogonal to my agreement with you excellent post.) [/QUOTE]
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In Defense of the Theory of Dissociated Mechanics
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