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<blockquote data-quote="Yesway Jose" data-source="post: 5640186" data-attributes="member: 6679265">The key thing here that I feel that a more holistic approach is ultimately the most useful and important goal in mind, rather than constantly dissect any one element out of context because I think the latter has already been done ad nauseum without consensus.&nbsp;Even illustrations tend to fail if we consider the last 65 pages.&nbsp;I find now that lurkerdom is a much better return on investment, as I don't feel compelled to defend my opinions from misrepresentation especially from those who are temporarily belligerent or overly-analytical or both. That said...&nbsp;I think Roleplaying is just telling an interactive shared story of some sort, usually (but not always) with use of mechanics.&nbsp;I think Simulationism is if Roleplaying results in a narrative with (subjectively adequate) verisimilitude. There are very complex and very subjective interactions here: the nature of the mechanics, the interaction between mechanics, the way the DM uses mechanics, the way *each* player in the group uses the mechanics, the kinds of stories that each player subjectively wants to tell, the stories that each player considers to be relatively plausible, and the stories that end up being told in the shared narrative after all.&nbsp;I think Immersion is how I feel *while* that narrative is being formed. There are complex and subjective interactions here as well. There are subjectively independant but related at any one time, so there can be simulationism or immersion or neither or both.&nbsp;I think all of the above points have been touched upon in the previous pages and many other threads, although I believe it's the 1st time in this thread that I've personally dared to hazard a general interpretation of &quot;simulation&quot; and &quot;immersion&quot;. For the above reasons, I feel it's futile for me to drill down into any further detail, so I don't know what else to say.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Yesway Jose, post: 5640186, member: 6679265"] The key thing here that I feel that a more holistic approach is ultimately the most useful and important goal in mind, rather than constantly dissect any one element out of context because I think the latter has already been done ad nauseum without consensus. Even illustrations tend to fail if we consider the last 65 pages. I find now that lurkerdom is a much better return on investment, as I don't feel compelled to defend my opinions from misrepresentation especially from those who are temporarily belligerent or overly-analytical or both. That said... I think Roleplaying is just telling an interactive shared story of some sort, usually (but not always) with use of mechanics. I think Simulationism is if Roleplaying results in a narrative with (subjectively adequate) verisimilitude. There are very complex and very subjective interactions here: the nature of the mechanics, the interaction between mechanics, the way the DM uses mechanics, the way *each* player in the group uses the mechanics, the kinds of stories that each player subjectively wants to tell, the stories that each player considers to be relatively plausible, and the stories that end up being told in the shared narrative after all. I think Immersion is how I feel *while* that narrative is being formed. There are complex and subjective interactions here as well. There are subjectively independant but related at any one time, so there can be simulationism or immersion or neither or both. I think all of the above points have been touched upon in the previous pages and many other threads, although I believe it's the 1st time in this thread that I've personally dared to hazard a general interpretation of "simulation" and "immersion". For the above reasons, I feel it's futile for me to drill down into any further detail, so I don't know what else to say. [/QUOTE]

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