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In Depth Critique of Part 3 of Basic Rules
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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6355399" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>Sure, 53 spells got called out "on the carpet" but there are plenty of similar spells that "didn't" that bloody well fall into the same veins. I mean, if you have a problem with fireball, what makes lightning bolt better designed? (Nevermind, its not. I missed it on first read through). </p><p></p><p>Second, lots of spells fail because they do what's on the tin: Detect Magic detects magic. You then note that PCs use said spell to detect for magic! Well no duh! You complain a PC can fly over a pit, or understand any language with comp languages, or Invisibility makes you hard to see. Which to me is the essence of problem-solving magic: DM provides a challenge (get over the pit) and the PCs use their resources to do so "I'll fly across with a rope and anchor it there". Of course, you dismiss the notion that since the PCs had to spend a resource (a 3rd level or higher spell slot, which don't come easy these days) to do this, each of these spells exist in a vacuum where I don't have to weigh where flying over the chasm is worth one less fireball. </p><p></p><p>Which lead me to my ultimate dismissal of your point: you don't want magic to DO anything USEFUL. Attack magic is too powerful since it can kill a PC instantly. Save or suck magic cripples a combatant. Can't use magic to overcome an obstacle. Can't use magic to learn anything. Can't use magic to go anywhere. Can't use magic to create anything. Healing is too easy. Buffs are too easy. Defensive magic makes the game unfun. I can't even use magic for light since THAT makes freaking 1 cp torches irrelevant. There is practically no spell that doesn't break/unfun the game for you! This is far-beyond "buff-scry-teleport" or "invisible flying death" level problems; this is "wall of stone was used to stop my monsters from ganging up on the PCs. That's not fair!" level whining. </p><p></p><p>Which is why I think you will be happier in a game like 4e. Every complaint you cite is fixed there. Fireball a killer? Not at 5d6 vs. 40 hp monsters. Save or die/suck is mostly gone. Buffs last til end of turn. Magic missile had a "to hit" roll. Healing costs a healing surge to use. Rituals cost real GP to use. Fly and other movement spells are well into paragon levels. A wizard's fireball, a clerics, searing light, a rogue's dastardly strike, and a fighter's punishing blow are all on par with one another in terms of relative power. It literally fixes every problem you have on the list! (Except light; that's still an at-will cantrip). Really, go play that, you'll be a lot happier I think then trying to fix 5e's neo-Vancian magic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6355399, member: 7635"] Sure, 53 spells got called out "on the carpet" but there are plenty of similar spells that "didn't" that bloody well fall into the same veins. I mean, if you have a problem with fireball, what makes lightning bolt better designed? (Nevermind, its not. I missed it on first read through). Second, lots of spells fail because they do what's on the tin: Detect Magic detects magic. You then note that PCs use said spell to detect for magic! Well no duh! You complain a PC can fly over a pit, or understand any language with comp languages, or Invisibility makes you hard to see. Which to me is the essence of problem-solving magic: DM provides a challenge (get over the pit) and the PCs use their resources to do so "I'll fly across with a rope and anchor it there". Of course, you dismiss the notion that since the PCs had to spend a resource (a 3rd level or higher spell slot, which don't come easy these days) to do this, each of these spells exist in a vacuum where I don't have to weigh where flying over the chasm is worth one less fireball. Which lead me to my ultimate dismissal of your point: you don't want magic to DO anything USEFUL. Attack magic is too powerful since it can kill a PC instantly. Save or suck magic cripples a combatant. Can't use magic to overcome an obstacle. Can't use magic to learn anything. Can't use magic to go anywhere. Can't use magic to create anything. Healing is too easy. Buffs are too easy. Defensive magic makes the game unfun. I can't even use magic for light since THAT makes freaking 1 cp torches irrelevant. There is practically no spell that doesn't break/unfun the game for you! This is far-beyond "buff-scry-teleport" or "invisible flying death" level problems; this is "wall of stone was used to stop my monsters from ganging up on the PCs. That's not fair!" level whining. Which is why I think you will be happier in a game like 4e. Every complaint you cite is fixed there. Fireball a killer? Not at 5d6 vs. 40 hp monsters. Save or die/suck is mostly gone. Buffs last til end of turn. Magic missile had a "to hit" roll. Healing costs a healing surge to use. Rituals cost real GP to use. Fly and other movement spells are well into paragon levels. A wizard's fireball, a clerics, searing light, a rogue's dastardly strike, and a fighter's punishing blow are all on par with one another in terms of relative power. It literally fixes every problem you have on the list! (Except light; that's still an at-will cantrip). Really, go play that, you'll be a lot happier I think then trying to fix 5e's neo-Vancian magic. [/QUOTE]
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