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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 6022073" data-attributes="member: 92305">That's all about roleplaying, though, isn't it? When I ran my AD&D games, a player really couldn't be unskilled at roleplaying because, how he acted is what the NPCs saw. If a character has a high CHA stat but his player was shy and introverted, then the character was shy and introverted but well liked by those who did get to know him. It's the DM's job to manage roleplaying. If the player playing the half-orc brute tried to come off as suave as a social butterfly, then it's the DM's role to remind the player, "Hey! Your half orc has CHR 6. Do you really think he'd act that way?" Just like not allowing a character to have three actions in a round when he's only allowed one, the DM has to make sure that what's being played is within the parameters of the character.       In my opinion, the time to roll the dice is when you need to determine if a character knows something that a player couldn't possibly know. Take the example above I wrote of the PC examining the sword in the merchant's stall.... Supplement Four wrote:For example, let's say that a player has his character examine the quality of swords in a merchant's stall. Back in the old days of AD&D and 2E, the player would ask questions, and the DM would answer. Many times, this would errupt into a roleplaying situation, the DM playing the merchant. Player says, "What does the sword look like?" And, as DM, I'd reply, "You see nicks in the edge. The blade is dry and badly needs oil. And, there's some rust near the handle and guard. Out of the corner of your eye, you see the merchant staring at you, smiling. He walks over. "Master," he says, "that weapon has been used to kill many foes. It is a soldier's weapon. Very serviceable. High quality. And, it seems to fit your hand perfectly! Shall we say...12 gold sovereigns?"Now, the player is into it. He replies, in character, "Nay! I can obtain a new sword, hot from the forge, for 15 sovereigns. Look at the rust! Look at the nicks! Look--the handle needs to be re-wrapped! I'll give you 5 sovereigns.""Five sovereigns!" The GM explodes, in character. "Will you take the food from the mouths of my children? That weapon is worth 10 sovereigns, but I'll take a loss on it at 9 sovereigns because you blessed me today by entering my humble shop."See how the older rules promoted roleplaying? It's natural to get to this place using the AD&D 2E rules. But, with 3.0/3.5, it's a different story. Instead of roleplaying, rolling dice is encouraged. Instead of the player originally asking questions about the sword, back and forth, with the GM, the question is likely to be, "I want to roll an Appraise check. What's my DC?" And, once you give him the DC, he wants to know what his check told him.   Let's change the example a bit. Let's say that the sword, as shabby as it looks, is one of the Lost Swords of Blah-Blah-Blahbaaa. These swords can be identified by a small infinity symbol etched at the base of the blade near the guard. The DM could describe this to the player, but all that is going to tell the player that there is something special about this sword because of that symbol. (And, sometimes, that's a good way to go, setting up a mystery in the game for which the player is interested. It's a plot hook.) But, we're going to say that the Lost Swords of Blah-Blah-Blahbaaa are native to the character's home city-state. Because of this, there's a chance that the character knows of the Lost Swords and has heard of the symbol. A check is perfect for this type of thing (and maybe it's a Knowledge check instead of an Appraise check). The above example would start out the same but turn more like this... Player says, "What does the sword look like?" And, as DM, I'd reply, "You see nicks in the edge. The blade is dry and badly needs oil. And, there's some rust near the handle and guard. But, on the base of the blade near the guard, you see a curious symbol. It's the sign of the infinity. Roll your appraise." The player rolls and makes it as the DM continues, "Your eyes go wide when you see the infinity, for you know that this is one of the Lost Blades of Blah-Blah-Blahbaaa. There were nine of them, each said to lead their wielders to riches and glory. They were forged in your home city state of Blah-BAAA. Now, out of the corner of your eye, you see the merchant staring at you, smiling. He walks over." "Master," he says, "that weapon has been used to kill many foes. It is a soldier's weapon. Very serviceable. High quality. And, it seems to fit your hand perfectly! Shall we say...12 gold soverigns?" "Done!" Says the player. "I give him the coin, take the sword, and return to the inn with it." This type of die throw I think should be used in the game, when appropriate. It's the type of throws such as the "DC 15 Appraise" tasks needed to determine the worth of a blade as shown in the first example that I question. I think a lot of those types of throws should be thrown out of the game replaced with Player/DM interaction.</blockquote>

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